Air Show Crash in Dallas

[anofly]

not being experienced at formation work.... it would seem to me that having widely divergent speeds is a risk, the aircobra was going a lot faster than the bomber, as were many others lapping around on the video, what does a fast pilot do when they do lose visual on the slower ones ? ... it cannot be a happy time.

some multiple perspectives
https://www.google.com/search?q=video+o ... F6vRDrMBHs

[Nark]

We brief: loss of visual contact:

Turn 10* to the clear side. There’s a bunch of things to do, to rejoin.

We have join up procedures, when not visual. The deconfliction is altitude.

Not to shit on the guys, but our organization is based largely on contributions from members and sponsors. You have to meet certain performance metrics, to fly these aircraft, in air shows, and formation.

In the spectrum of formations: flying with the same types is on the “easy” end. Whereas dissimilar types is on the “harder” end of the spectrum.

[Colonel]

Joinups and formation flying have almost nothing to do with each other.

While there is some civilian straight and level formation flying (eg RV’s) joinups are almost a pure military activity. Very little civilian knowledge or skill in that area.

Intercepts/joinups are what fighter pilots do, in order to get into position to shoot another aircraft down. Civilians don’t do that.

Joinups are actually a hell of a lot of fun, once you know how. Have the lead perform a gentle level turn. Wing goes full throttle and dives and aims ahead of the lead, inside him. As wing gets close, climb up to lead’s altitude and slide into echelon position. If you have excess energy it’s your birthday- start doing barrel rolls around him.

Most civilians don’t do that. It’s just high school physics.

[mcrit]

I was always taught ‘roll to the elbow and pull’ if you found yourself in formation situation where things were going South.

[Colonel]

Once you master conventional rear quarter joinups, time to have some real fun and learn front quarter (head on) joinups.

Think of doing a half cuban eight, which should position you in an inverted 45 looking at the lead from behind, which is a pretty good place.

The silk scarf crowd call this a yo-yo.

Like I said, joinups have really nothing to do with formation. They are what you do, if you don’t take off in formation.

Like spins, they are a weird little corner of aviation. Few people understand the physics which is kind of weird when you think about it. Mostly high school with maybe some first year calculus is all. I am surrounded by children with PhD’s so it’s really not a very high bar.

From first principles, the result of a joinup is to have identical potential and kinetic energy. Once that light blub goes on, you will understand why I recommend you join up from behind and below. As you approach the lead, you slide up and convert your excess airspeed to altitude.

At first, a level joinup (or worse, descending) from behind will cause you problems as you overshoot the lead and cause him to laugh heartily. But as soon as you learn to master the barrel roll around the lead, you will learn to join up with all the energy you can muster.

Start by barrel rolling around the lead with lots of nose to tail clearance (perfectly safe) like this:



Once you get good, sneak up so you have fuselage overlap.

Hey. I taught myself to do it, and people don’t think much of me, so you can too.

[cgzro]

Perhaps it was not a join up attempt, perhaps they had bombers on a wide circuit and fighters on slightly tighter circuit? That would certainly be the 'safe' way to approach displaying so many different aircraft types (either that or have them form up after take-off and stay that way). Just a guess but I bet the airshow had two non overlapping racetracks at slightly different altitudes and he may have just simply overshot his corner and altitude a bit.

[Slick Goodlin]

This is third hand at best but I’d heard somewhere that the P-63 was to imitate a German fighter.

Is there a big book of now not to murder yourself in front of a crowd at air shows? I know things like the wall of fire and some Blue Angels stuff takes advantage of perspective illusions to make things look closer together than they are. Is there any actual guidance out there for people putting together a show or is it all trade secrets?

[Colonel]

These straight and level warbird guys are not airshow pilots.

They do not have ICAS cards with “formation” on them.

What I have written here in this thread would be completely unknown to them.

Anyone remember the newbie in the L29 at Reno this year? Same same.

[TundraTire]

Isn't an ICAS card just a piece of paper? I've read somewhere that the existence of paper does not necessarily make one a safer pilot.

From the accounts I've read, the CAF have done this display numerous times, and it has a lengthy pre-show safety briefing. The YouTube videos by Blancolirio and AOPA have some pretty good analysis in them. Biggest question for me would be why did they run both loops of aircraft at the same altitude?

[Slick Goodlin]

These straight and level warbird guys are not airshow pilots.

Maybe they should act like they are, is all I’m saying. Appears to me there are clever ways to make things look riskier than they are that most living airshow pilots seem to incorporate.