Rookie pilot asked me to post about my flying training methods.
I taught approaches to the full landing when doing IFR training.
The student continued to the full landing with no forward visibility rather than miss at minimums.
How many of you do this?
Note:
This training was only with competent pilots and not with students just starting.
How many here practice zero / zero landings?
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Chuck Ellsworth
HPC the student has a map or some other vision blocking device in front of him/her that prevents them from seeing the runway.
Instead of missing the approach at minimums the student continues the approach in the glassy water landing configuration maintaining centre line with the localizer needle, the touch down is no different than a glassy water landing.
Therefore the instructor only has to make sure the landing will be on the runway and at a safe attitude....it is that simple.
As to the difficulty of tail wheel airplanes that also is a red herring because the only difference is you learn airplane control right from the start of your take off's and landings.
When I learned to fly there were only tail wheel airplanes and the minimum time for the PPL was 30 hours.
Instead of missing the approach at minimums the student continues the approach in the glassy water landing configuration maintaining centre line with the localizer needle, the touch down is no different than a glassy water landing.
Therefore the instructor only has to make sure the landing will be on the runway and at a safe attitude....it is that simple.
As to the difficulty of tail wheel airplanes that also is a red herring because the only difference is you learn airplane control right from the start of your take off's and landings.
When I learned to fly there were only tail wheel airplanes and the minimum time for the PPL was 30 hours.
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ScudRunner-d95
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm
That is pretty much my SOP every landing I just let go close my eyes and scream "Jesus take the Wheel"
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Chuck Ellsworth
If an instructor does not feel comfortable teaching zero / zero landings they should quit instructing.
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
No I have not done it.
I see the case to be made for it as one could get hung by zero zero and know you could get down.
My concern (with my airplane) and perhaps most willing to instruct would be a hard landing, timing the flare, and would only be a good idea on a long, wide runway. Better have the alt setting right.
Otherwise very good training as the needles become extremely sensitive.
I have done approaches with an overshoot to 100 feet at 120 knots. That is good training for the same reasons.
The last 100 feet I recall is difficult.
I see the case to be made for it as one could get hung by zero zero and know you could get down.
My concern (with my airplane) and perhaps most willing to instruct would be a hard landing, timing the flare, and would only be a good idea on a long, wide runway. Better have the alt setting right.
Otherwise very good training as the needles become extremely sensitive.
I have done approaches with an overshoot to 100 feet at 120 knots. That is good training for the same reasons.
The last 100 feet I recall is difficult.
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Chuck Ellsworth
Rookie Pilot:
Properly set up a zero zero landing is not a problem on any runway with an ILS.
The risk of a hard touch down is very unlikely, but that is what the instructor is there for.
How many float planes get damaged by a hard landing when doing a glassy water landing?
Properly set up a zero zero landing is not a problem on any runway with an ILS.
The risk of a hard touch down is very unlikely, but that is what the instructor is there for.
How many float planes get damaged by a hard landing when doing a glassy water landing?
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Chuck Ellsworth
Actually the best way to train pilots to fly in IMC is to properly simulate IMC.
Two stage amber is the next best thing to flying in solid IMC.
Two stage amber is the next best thing to flying in solid IMC.
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
Chuck Ellsworth wrote: Rookie Pilot:
Properly set up a zero zero landing is not a problem on any runway with an ILS.
The risk of a hard touch down is very unlikely, but that is what the instructor is there for.
How many float planes get damaged by a hard landing when doing a glassy water landing?
I imagine in the Last 50 feet the bar drops through the floor and then it's just set uo using altitude and a constant, gradual descent rate. Of course I've never done a glassy water landing either.
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Chuck Ellsworth
Getting a sea plane rating will make you a better pilot Rookie Pilot and it is not really that expensive.
But if you really want to get the best value for your time and money go take some training from the Colonel.
But if you really want to get the best value for your time and money go take some training from the Colonel.
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
HPC,
Was referring to a hard landing in training. Not a real emergency. I know where I would go in that case.
I'd just be happy if instructors trained in reasonable IMC. I get why not as the risk reward isn't there but still too bad some level couldn't be done.
Flying an approach to a mile and 200 in gusty rain is a bit different than under the hood on a clear day. For one you can't simulate the emotion that if you mess up you are likely cooked.
It is cool breaking out and seeing the approach lights only, then the runway. At least I can do it when necessary.
Although these days simple VFR is far more enjoyable. Aging, I guess.
Was referring to a hard landing in training. Not a real emergency. I know where I would go in that case.
I'd just be happy if instructors trained in reasonable IMC. I get why not as the risk reward isn't there but still too bad some level couldn't be done.
Flying an approach to a mile and 200 in gusty rain is a bit different than under the hood on a clear day. For one you can't simulate the emotion that if you mess up you are likely cooked.
It is cool breaking out and seeing the approach lights only, then the runway. At least I can do it when necessary.
Although these days simple VFR is far more enjoyable. Aging, I guess.
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