Engine Failure

[Big Pistons Forever]

As a young pilot I remember a discussion about the wisdom of my flying single engine piston aircraft IFR in IMC. The much older and experienced pilot I was talking to thought I was crazy. Just then another very experienced pilot walked into the room and he said “Bob how much single engine cloud time do you have ?”

After thinking about it for awhile he said

“I don’t know maybe 10 hours ? “

This was greeted with a shocked expression and then a big laugh and the comment

“No, I mean single engine IFR in an airplane with only one engine ? “

“ Oh good lord I would never do that ! “ was the answer

[Colonel]

Pilots are so funny.

Two recent accidents, pilots of multi-engine aircraft try to fly climb into an overcast,
and lose control and spiral to the ground, killing everyone on board.

I don't think the engines failed as soon as they entered cloud. The pilots failed.

Pilots never mention that they are the weakest link. They are so funny.

I guess JFK, jr would have been far better off if he was in a twin instead of a single,
heading out over the ocean at night.

Time for me to tell - again - my Tale of Two Comanches. One comanche was
flown by a nice old guy out of Carp, ran it out of gas in perfect wx, stalled and
spun after that, killing himself and his grandson.

Another comanche. Exhaust leak. Pilot went to sleep, and engine ran out of gas.
Fortunately the pilot was unable to do anything to make it worse, because he
was unconcious. The autopilot kept the wings level, and tried to trim nose up
to maintain altitude. It descended landed softly in a corn field, and the unconscious
pilot woke up with a CO headache and a broken wrist from the landing.

Now. Which pilot did better? The one working hard, or the one asleep at the wheel?

Sometime, I will tell you about spin recovery. See Beggs-Mueller.

BPF will sh1t on me for saying this, but in a single the best forced approach procedure is:

1) wings level
2) slowly trim all the way nose up
3) FASTEN YOUR SHOULDER HARNESS <=== DO THIS
4) master off, fuel off
5) close your eyes

You aren't Bob Hoover. Don't pretend you can fly like him.


This is a great photo of some multi-engine pilots with tens of thousands of hours, whom after
an engine failure pulled the wrong throttle.



Not really a Good Job™.

[Big Pistons Forever]

BPF will sh1t on me for saying this, but in a single the best forced approach procedure is:

1) wings level
2) slowly trim all the way nose up
3) FASTEN YOUR SHOULDER HARNESS <=== DO THIS
4) master off, fuel off
5) close your eyes

The accident record is pretty clear. Your chance of survival is almost completely dependent on the attitude of the aircraft when you hit. If you are wings level with a slightly nose up attitude you will almost certainly live no matter what you hit.

However if you hit in a steep nose down, banked attitude you are probably going to die. This is why the low altitude stall/spin accidents are so deadly.

Sadly low altitude loss of control accidents are now ranked as No 1 in the ranking of the causes of fatal accidents

[CpnCrunch]

BPF will sh1t on me for saying this, but in a single the best forced approach procedure is:

1) wings level
2) slowly trim all the way nose up
3) FASTEN YOUR SHOULDER HARNESS <=== DO THIS
4) master off, fuel off
5) close your eyes

The accident record is pretty clear. Your chance of survival is almost completely dependent on the attitude of the aircraft when you hit. If you are wings level with a slightly nose up attitude you will almost certainly live no matter what you hit.

However if you hit in a steep nose down, banked attitude you are probably going to die. This is why the low altitude stall/spin accidents are so deadly.

Sadly low altitude loss of control accidents are now ranked as No 1 in the ranking of the causes of fatal accidents

IMO the flight schools make it too complicated with all this key point nonsense. I did that for my PPL, but as far as I remember for my CPL I just eyeballed it: picked a field, and did whatever was necessary to land in it. I mean, when the shit really hits the fan in a random location outside the practice area, you're not going to have the presence of mind to figure out key points. Just get it done, and get on the ground safely.

[cgzro]

If you have to have an engine failure, CYND is a pretty good place to do it. Farmer's fields off both ends and several cuts through the fields to the North. Victoria where I did a lot of night flying would have been a whole other kettle of very cold wet fish.

Yes I've had a few losses of power and oil problems.

I had an engine stoppage in a spin due to a slobbering rich idle mixture adjustment and too low idle RPM so when I hammered (literally) the throttle out of the spin it just flooded and rather than muck with trying a restart I just landed on the runway that was almost perfectly positioned under me. Got into an argument with the mechanic and overhaul shop on the freshly overhauled fuel injection about that one after they insisted it was set right but I found the instructions to properly set the linkage length, idle mixture and RPM and got it corrected properly. After that I read a story about one guy who had his engine actually run backwards after a tail slide. (Dan Rihn of the OneDesign series aircraft).

I also had an engine stoppage when breaking in my engine and ran it out of gas inverted. Turns out the inverted usable fuel is 5 gallons less than the upright usable fuel on a Pitts (no its not in the POH)... again runway underneath so a non issue. That one started again just as I was rounding out.

I had a rather significant power drop once when my Bendix got stuck. It was like somebody stole 30% of my power, if I remember correctly when I shut down the good Colonel instantly diagnosed 'stuck Bendix" after my prop stopped with a sudden bang and my wings wagged a foot up and down in each direction in deference to Mr Newton. We pulled the Bendix off the starter and Andy was kind enough to hand prop me a couple of times as we gaggled home.

I did experience the oil pressure dropping, oil temperature climbing in unison once in a freshly overhauled Gypsy in a Tiger Moth. Happened right on climb out but there was lots of room to gently turn the old lady around and land at idle. Not long after that another pilot ran it out of gas and spun it in, broke his back and destroyed the plane. Its like the comment above... fly straight and level into whatever and live... oh and put fuel in the plane.

Had similar oil experience with a Fleet Finch after a fresh overhaul when some O ring of the wrong size was used in the oil system and unbeknownst to me it was pouring out the bottom of the engine and under the floor boards out of sight. Temps started to climb so I came back early and landed and left a massive oil trail of which Greta would have loved to hate.. I think its is still visible on the taxiway. I had a few ounces of oil left in the dry sum when I shut down. My passenger who was a new Snowbird solo on his first open cockpit flight was unimpressed... nice guy but tall and uncomfortable as he was getting grease in his hair from the rockers the entire flight .. Tutors .. luxury!

Peter

[cgzro]

BPF will sh1t on me for saying this, but in a single the best forced approach procedure is:

1) wings level
2) slowly trim all the way nose up
3) FASTEN YOUR SHOULDER HARNESS <=== DO THIS
4) master off, fuel off
5) close your eyes

The accident record is pretty clear. Your chance of survival is almost completely dependent on the attitude of the aircraft when you hit. If you are wings level with a slightly nose up attitude you will almost certainly live no matter what you hit.

However if you hit in a steep nose down, banked attitude you are probably going to die. This is why the low altitude stall/spin accidents are so deadly.

Sadly low altitude loss of control accidents are now ranked as No 1 in the ranking of the causes of fatal accidents

IMO the flight schools make it too complicated with all this key point nonsense. I did that for my PPL, but as far as I remember for my CPL I just eyeballed it: picked a field, and did whatever was necessary to land in it. I mean, when the shit really hits the fan in a random location outside the practice area, you're not going to have the presence of mind to figure out key points. Just get it done, and get on the ground safely.

There is a lot to be said for being too high and too fast and then slipping the crap out of it on final. Nothing fancy required.

I spoke to a jump pilot a few years ago who had a catastrophic engine failure at 14,000 above Gatineau one evening. He said it was stressful because there was no reason not to make a perfect landing given a 6000ft runway 14,000 below him but that the 10 minutes or so of descent was SOOOOOO long and all he could think of was screwing it up. Of course he didn't but it'd be weird having so much time and altitude.

[Scudrunner]

Great discussion guys.

[TwinOtterFan]

I haven't had an actual engine failure yet as I've only been flying about 5 minutes but my instructor loves to cut the engine, like all the time, usually right after I've done a few things well and he can tell I'm getting cozy that is when he reaches over and cuts it. From my very new perspective I have to agree with Crunch though, my first few forced approaches were crap as I am trying to figure out the ground elevation then my decent rate x 2 plus 200 then hit that point as a high key.

I finally nailed a couple after a couple tries and my instructor asked what numbers I used and I told honestly sir, I just picked a field and flew to it...... I said you already taught me what a normal landing looks like so I just pretended the field was the runway. Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in with the generation I'm living,

[Liquid_Charlie]

I know this will get skud going but the most unpleasant, except for t/o and landings especially in short strips, was the Islander, damn it was slow and I have never flown a piston engine that was so carb-ice prone came close to loosing an engine and it was so subtle - no wonder they went to fuel injection and I wonder if the turbine would have changed my mind a little.

I can remember a company I flew for thought a commander 690B would work out great for sked and medevacs. It would have except most of the natives up north thought it was an islander and wouldn't ride in it initially at that critical time of trying to promote the aircraft. Silly people.

I can say my experiences with an Islander were far from being a delight but hey, that's only me and yes they are fine on flights of 50 miles or less.

[CpnCrunch]

I finally nailed a couple after a couple tries and my instructor asked what numbers I used and I told honestly sir, I just picked a field and flew to it...... I said you already taught me what a normal landing looks like so I just pretended the field was the runway. Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in with the generation I'm living,

There are various tools you can use to get to the field...s turns, slips, flaps, circling. Also, it is sometimes better to pick a better field. The guide says "A change of field is acceptable from an altitude or point in the approach where a landing could still have been made on the originally chosen landing site."