The military relies on aptitude for training. They weed people out using a fire hose training system. They don’t provide you with safe spaces and playdoh if you fail to meet standards.
Civilian FTUs rely on money. And it’s amazing what cash can do for you – especially when you’re inept.
That may not matter as much if you’re VFR flying for fun in CAVOK, but it raises serious questions if you’re proposing to fly your single engine piston Cherokee in heavy IFR conditions at night.
Accidents stats suggest that a lot of pilots who fly night single pilot IFR really don’t’ have an aptitude for it. Unfortunately by the time they find out for sure, it’s too late.
Instuctors and schools -- again !!!!!!!
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Barneydhc82
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:32 pm
A number of years ago, a university on the west coast offered an aviation program that in the end, the student had a CPL and a degree. One very wet cloudy night, 4 aircraft from the university were enroute up the coast to YXX, with the lead aircraft having a 1200 hour instructor on board. The weather at the time at ZBB was 700 and 3
A local instructor and student requested SVFR for a weather check and shortly after take off they entered cloud then had to try saving ass. The cloudy breaking was successful and they got the "I told you so"
Back to the University flight of 4, the weather was pretty much the same along the Washington State coast but they pressed on. The instructor had been recently hire out of Ontario and had no knowledge of west coast weather or topography. He and his two CPL students hit terrain just south of BLI while following I-5. About 3 minutes later the second aircraft with 3 sob did the same thing at nearly the same location. Six dead!.
No.3 aircraft landed at Skagit County airport and No. 4 flew very low over the water soth west of BLI and managed to land at YXX after a very hairy flight. and shortly after this tragic occurrence the university closed down their aviation program.
With both of the situations the weather was known and had been forecast and yet the urge to get home/get the exercise done. One instructor and student were lucky...the rest were not
Take what you want from this.
Barney
A local instructor and student requested SVFR for a weather check and shortly after take off they entered cloud then had to try saving ass. The cloudy breaking was successful and they got the "I told you so"
Back to the University flight of 4, the weather was pretty much the same along the Washington State coast but they pressed on. The instructor had been recently hire out of Ontario and had no knowledge of west coast weather or topography. He and his two CPL students hit terrain just south of BLI while following I-5. About 3 minutes later the second aircraft with 3 sob did the same thing at nearly the same location. Six dead!.
No.3 aircraft landed at Skagit County airport and No. 4 flew very low over the water soth west of BLI and managed to land at YXX after a very hairy flight. and shortly after this tragic occurrence the university closed down their aviation program.
With both of the situations the weather was known and had been forecast and yet the urge to get home/get the exercise done. One instructor and student were lucky...the rest were not
Take what you want from this.
Barney
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
Someone refresh my memory: are you even allowed to have multiple pre-PPL students on a training flight at once?
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
[quote author=Barneydhc82 link=topic=4866.msg12527#msg12527 date=1479248438]
They were CPL students...RTFS
[/quote]
No they were not. They were student pilots pre PPL.
http://www.pprune.org/canada/586034-st- ... sh-pa.html
They were CPL students...RTFS
[/quote]
No they were not. They were student pilots pre PPL.
http://www.pprune.org/canada/586034-st- ... sh-pa.html
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John Swallow
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm
Maybe Barney was talking about HIS story...?
John
John
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Barneydhc82
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:32 pm
If you had read the post properly you would have realized that the linked post had NOTHING to do with mine! What I related was on the West Coast as I had made quite clear.. The six people killed were 1 Cl2 instructor and 5 CPL candidates that were part of a flight of 4 WEST coast aircraft.
Barney
Barney
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
[quote author=Barneydhc82 link=topic=4866.msg12527#msg12527 date=1479248438]
They were CPL students...RTFS
[/quote]
I was referring to the original accident in this thread. Your story is a sad one for sure, the most tragic outcome of biting off more than you can chew. For those students out of YSN though, it's hard to see them as anything more than being robbed on a trip like this, even when it's successful.
They were CPL students...RTFS
[/quote]
I was referring to the original accident in this thread. Your story is a sad one for sure, the most tragic outcome of biting off more than you can chew. For those students out of YSN though, it's hard to see them as anything more than being robbed on a trip like this, even when it's successful.
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
This is both tragic and wrong no matter what I write here. Barney's story is also.
Re: The original three.. I wonder if they went somewhere, then after the weather went IMC, the instructor decided he had to get the plane back to work.
That is my guess.
The two students obviously just trusted the instructor. I know I would have. You assume they know everything at that point of your training. Even at over 200 hours when I was doing commercial training I trusted the instructors 100%. They are flight instructors, I don't even have a CPL.
It was not until I went back and tried to get current in 2012 that I dared start to question my instructors. I did stalls with one then next time another one says, let's see some stalls, I explain, "I did that last time, they are fine let's work on the next thing." He responds, "I have not seen them." So we spend too much time that lesson doing stalls again. Luckily for me they just wanted to spend my money and not crash.
I must have picked up a bad attitude from hanging out at AvCanada before I moved here with the haters.
Re: The original three.. I wonder if they went somewhere, then after the weather went IMC, the instructor decided he had to get the plane back to work.
That is my guess.
The two students obviously just trusted the instructor. I know I would have. You assume they know everything at that point of your training. Even at over 200 hours when I was doing commercial training I trusted the instructors 100%. They are flight instructors, I don't even have a CPL.
It was not until I went back and tried to get current in 2012 that I dared start to question my instructors. I did stalls with one then next time another one says, let's see some stalls, I explain, "I did that last time, they are fine let's work on the next thing." He responds, "I have not seen them." So we spend too much time that lesson doing stalls again. Luckily for me they just wanted to spend my money and not crash.
I must have picked up a bad attitude from hanging out at AvCanada before I moved here with the haters.
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