How do you judge height from 50 feet to touch down?

[Eric Janson]

Here's how not to do it in a large jet. Inputs by the Pilot just make things worse and PIO results.

This is how you get a pod/flap track/wingtip strike.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Ahhh I made many many landings in Amsterdam, in fact my last flight when I retired was on that same runway...long night so we let Boeing land it.  :)

[Colonel]

[quote]Inputs by the Pilot just make things worse and PIO results[/quote]

There oughta be a goddamned licence or rating
or endorsement or course or even a goddamned
logbook endorsement for closed-loop control.

This is an incredibly important skill that many
pilots [i]don't even know exists[/i] which is simply bizarre.

Closed-loop flying is how a pilot can jump onto
a new type and immediately fly it precisely and
smoothly, which is considered sorcery by some
pilots because it isn't in the checklist.

I have done my best to try to teach this over
the decades:

1) [b]LOOK OUTSIDE[/b] at the Big Attitude Indicator
to [i]observe the results of your inputs[/i]

2) Fly lots of different types in as short a period of
time as possible, to learn the lesson of #1

3) Be alert to the danger of a PIO in ANY axis
and when it is likely to occur and instantly
recognize it and know how to cure it

4) No "flying by rote".  This is why I have such a
hard-on against checklists - pilots have been taught
that a checklist is like a cooking receipe - if you do
what it says, success is yours, according to the
Powers That Be (tm) that want to tell you how to
fly your airplane from the safety of their cubicle
on the ground and their defined benefits.

What a crock.  Adapt to your circumstances, or die. 
See Darwin.

[img width=500 height=373]http://www.dfe.com/photos/openvsclosedloop.jpg[/img]

TC wants you to fly open loop, with parameters
that they determine via your checklist.

If you live long enough, you learn to fly closed
loop, adapting to what is happening [i]now[/i].

I know.  TC wants to pull my instructor rating
because I teach pilots that they have to fly
differently in different circumstances.  Got that.

The n-dimensional matrix of life is shall we say,
somewhat sparsely populated by open-loop checklists.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why do you need an instructor rating Colonel?


An instructor rating only lets you instruct at the bottom of the pay scale.

[Colonel]

[quote]Why do you need an instructor rating Colonel?[/quote]

Good question.  The most use I find from my class 1
instructor/class 1 acro instructor ratings, is the
ability to teach new instructors.  I think I've done
an above average job in that regard.

However, I'm really getting tired of TC's bullshit.

I was told years ago that it would not be "productive"
for me to attempt any instructor rating renewal in
Ontario Region - so I do them in PNR, and do my
medicals in Quebec Region.

How incredibly unprofessional of those clowns on
the public payroll.  The taxpayer gets such poor
value from the immense amount of money spent
on salaries, benefits and pensions.

Perhaps, though, if I do let the ratings lapse, TC
will finally cease their illegal campaign of harassment
against me.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]I was told years ago that it would not be "productive"for me to attempt any instructor rating renewal inOntario Region [/quote]
I had the same threats made to me.
In that I no longer owned an operating certificate and knew I would be better off without one I made the decision to use the law against them.
They by threatening me were breaking the laws they as government officials are sworn to uphold.
I decided I could do better outside of Canada so I used the law against them It took almost three years but in the end I was successful.


They were found guilty of denying me due process...the foundation of law.


My career just got better as the years passed and I can look back with pride that I did not allow those moral degenerates to inflict uncalled for hurt on law abiding citizens.

You have also defended yourself and like me can walk upright and not be one of those unfortunates who kneel before these unlawful bullies.

[Gravel Digger]

I'm ready for Chuck's insight and technique.


After 20 years of flying, I honestly can't explain what the hell I do or where I look. I just use every cue available to me, have a place where that airplane must go and I do everything I can to make it arrive there as smoothly using as much finesse as posssible.


Less is more, I find. Modern aircraft are so well designed, they typically return to a nice stable place with minimum fighting on my part. Barring any kind of crazy weather/turbulence, Once she is set up nicely at 1000 ft, i find just a few gentle nudges is all that is required right into the flare.

[CpnCrunch]

So, what's your answer Chuck?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It is really simple.

I teach them how to judge height by teaching them where they should be looking and what they need to see on the approach to the flare, and then where to look and what to see once flared to the level attitude.

If they are wheel landing a tail wheel airplane the flare to the level attitude and touch down are done in one smooth motion.

If they are flying a nose wheel airplane they flare and hold off and wait for speed to degrade lift until the airplane touches on the mains with the nose wheel still in the air.

I can not teach anyone to judge height on a key board but I have a method that works one hundred percent of the time I teach it.

If you can judge the height of the wheels accurately to six inches from touch down every time you do not really need instruction.

With modern technology it would be quite simple to have voice call outs like for instance Airbus has that calls height right to " Retard " and touch down.

That would really make it safer for those who were never taught how to " land "...they were taught how to " arrive ".

[CpnCrunch]

I see you posted your technique a while ago on avcanada in this thread:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 66#p223789


300-500ft ahead, which seems to be where I look. I don't think I was ever taught this, I probably just happened to figure it out eventually.