Touch and goes.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

There is a debate going on over on Avcanada about doing touch and goes during training.


Some think it is dangerous to teach them in twin engine airplanes because of the risk of retracting the gear instead of the flaps.


A lot of the experienced pilots have moved over to this forum so what do y'all think of this subject.


Me, personally I have no problem teaching touch and goes in anything with an engine in it.

[Colonel]

For me, it's all about the runway length. 

With enough excess runway length, you're
not in a big hurry, and there's no excuse.

If someone thinks they're not competent to
do touch & goes in a Duchess on a 10,000
foot runway at sea level ... time to take up
some other activity that is less mentally
demanding.  You know, be a social assistant
to the PM's wife or something like that.

At the other extreme, we have these guys
going 200 mph on narrow public streets:

[youtube][/youtube]

I would tell the Canadian nanny-state buttercups
to try a little bit harder and be a little less
goddamned embarrassing.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The world has changed Colonel.


Flight instructors who can actually teach proper airplane handling are being replaced by SOP monkeys.

[Colonel]

I get the whole "egalitarian" thing.  People worship
at the grave site of Pierre Trudeau and elect his bird-
brain son.  I get it.  I really do.

But what on earth does that political correctness crap
have to do with aviation?  Since when does everyone
"deserve" an ATPL?

If you can't safely fly an airplane, do something else.

PS  I'm 52 years old, and I do touch and goes in jets (*)
If you're less than half my age and can't keep up to
an airplane that goes half as fast, time to ask your
helicopter mommy for new career options.

(*)  Why do I do touch and goes in jets?  I know this
goes against the advice of Pacific Region's newest
Inspector, but there is a very good reason for it,
even if people who can't get pilot jobs in the private
sector are unaware of it.

[Slick Goodlin]

With enough excess runway length, you're
not in a big hurry, and there's no excuse.

There's the key right there.  I think a lot of students misunderstand the why of what they're doing and just assume the goal is to be fast.  Instructors, for better or for worse (because I believe it's both), were often just students a few months ago and in a lot of cases they don't have the experience to build the right understanding themselves.


I think this is the kind of thing you fix through extensive mentoring, I just have no idea how that could ever possibly happen.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

A good start would be higher qualification requirements to teach.

[Colonel]

A long time ago, I proposed 1000 TT as a
requirement to become an instructor, but
everyone seemed to think that was not
realistic.

One of the main complaints was that new
CPLs could no longer use instructing as a
way to build time.

This puzzles me.  The objective of instructing
is to teach the student, not pad the logbook
of the instructor.

I don't think I understand aviation - let alone
the rest of the world - any more.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Colonel, flight training in Kanada is very tightly controlled by T.C. and they use fear as their main tool to control the instructors.


If the instructors were highly experienced pilots how in hell would they instil fear?


It is a dictatorship...period.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

This subject goes right to the heart of what flight training should or should not be.


The opinions being given on Avcanada are interesting to say the least, however I am sure some of the opinions are being given by people who have never held a flight instructors rating, not that is any guarantee of quality of opinion of course.


I once again wish to make it clear where I stand on this.


I do not believe in the paint by numbers style of teaching and the SOP monkey mindset on how to fly and teach.


I taught touch and go landings all my career in every type of airplane I taught on and that was a lot of different machines.


For instance I have taught thousands of touch and goes on Beech 18's and DC3's to name two different arplanes and I never, ever even came close to having an accident or incident caused by selecting the wrong lever during the thousands of hours I taught flying.


It scares the hell out of me when I hear and read these people saying it is unsafe to teach touch and goes on retractable gear airplanes.

[David MacRay]

the risk of retracting the gear instead of the flaps.

You are not supposed to fly for 8 hours after drinking alcohol. It's a law.

Is this like the risk of accidentally filling the fuel tanks with water from a garden hose?