Cessna Citation XLS Crash Robertson Field CT 2 Sep 2021

[Scudrunner]

If the right brake was grabbing on a single main like that I would think/hope the pilot would feel that and reject the take off.

My brakes are ceramic, we actually have a chart how many times to apply at what weight before departure. Basically ride the brakes make them hot so they work better.

Friggen weird concept to wrap your head around as someone who didn’t like to cook brakes…. Now a days just gotta remember what plane I’m in.

One thing I just thought of is the P2 probe on the engine inlet fucking up and causing the right engine to spoil up faster or surge more than the left causing the pilot to jam the right rudder (and brake?) to maintain centerline and having the anti skid or brake fuck up causing it to drag down the runway not achieving take off speed and maybe cockpit confusion to go no go……

Had the P2 probe issue happen to me coming out of DET, thrust came up faster than the other after thrust set called. full rudder to keep straight as the other side came up and matched slowly. Short runway, got in the air, avoided the small arms fire and had a chat with maintenance on the ground back home.

I’ll watch for the NTSB report on this one for sure. But I someone think The Colonel law will apply “there will be no new causes of accidents this year”

[Colonel]

the right engine to spoil up faster or surge more than the left causing the pilot to jam the right rudder (and brake?) to maintain centerline

That's a fascinating theory ... the weird thing is that they actually crashed right of extended centerline:



If the right engine was producing more power than the left, after they staggered into the air would
they have yawed left before impact?

The fact that they yawed right would tend to indicate that someone had a bootful of right rudder in,
or the left engine was making more power?

[Slick Goodlin]

If the right brake was grabbing on a single main like that I would think/hope the pilot would feel that and reject the take off.

You might be surprised, I know I have been. One pilot I’ve flown with drags the brakes on every takeoff; it can be felt in a sluggish acceleration, a feeling of braking torque pulling the nose down, and a sudden rush of acceleration as soon as we’re airborne. I mentioned it daily, as it was happening, but I guess some people don’t want to get better or listen to their Flap Operator or whatever.

[Scudrunner]

Good point Colonel! The images in the video if I’m not mistaken showed the right wheel skidding.

Definitely something strange

[Nark]

Scud,
Were you in the area?

B2B20A4E-F771-4B97-A96C-14F5278C1249.jpeg

[Scudrunner]

Nope, but I do frequent PWK close by you.

CPR

Chooo chooo

[Nark]

I’ll keep an ear out.

[Colonel]

Update: sure looks like the brakes - plural - were dragging on takeoff.

Now, we don't know why - at least not yet. That mystery may never be solved.

But. The pilots taking off, were apparently waiting like good little airline pilots
for the V1. You know, the reject speed, which if you are interested was Delorean
speed - 88.

However, they never reached V1, so they never rejected the takeoff, and they
drove off the end of the short runway and staggered into the air.

Dunno about you guys, but when I was flying jets, I was always paranoid about
whether the fucking thing was making power, which is thrust minus drag, right?

The stuff I flew always had dirty blades from sitting and needed a comp wash
and never got one.

A little, long-forgotten history lesson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90

As the takeoff roll began, the first officer noted several times to the captain that the instrument panel readings he was seeing did not seem to reflect reality (he was referring to the fact that the plane did not appear to have developed as much power as it needed for takeoff, despite the instruments indicating otherwise).

The pilot was told not to delay because another aircraft was 2.5 miles out on final approach to the same runway

Tricky and subjective stuff, inadequate acceleration. Horrible consequences for a difficult decision.

[John Swallow]

The CF-5 and the CF-104 had an acceleration check speed/checkpoint to ascertain if adequate thrust was being developed.

T-33, F-86, Tutor used the "push in the seat" technique.

Don't know about the CF-18; I'm guessing the latter...

[Colonel]

John: did you ever get a chance to fly an original Lockheed USAF Allison-powered T-33?

I am told they did not have blistering acceleration under normal circumstances.