Ontario instructor wages - 2018

[Slick Goodlin]

[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=7712.msg21461#msg21461 date=1514848294]
In the last 24 months, you might have taught 20 people to land a Pitts, and 30 people to fly an L39, but that's not "real" flight instruction and doesn't count, so you're not a "real" flight instructor.
[/quote]
Those things don't require an instructor rating to do, so if that's your bread and butter there's no renewal required.  Still, I see your point since I'd like to get my rating back to do the [i]very[/i] occasional PPL and a crap ton of specialty stuff that wouldn't need a rating at all.

[Colonel]

Right - you technically don't need a flight instructor rating
to teach the most difficult and dangerous stuff.  That doesn't
make much sense - doesn't it need to be taught well? -  but
I don't have a horse in that race any more, so ok.

[Slick Goodlin]

[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=7712.msg21464#msg21464 date=1514854561]
Right - you technically don't need a flight instructor rating
to teach the most difficult and dangerous stuff.[/quote]
I would think that going from zero to safely operating an airplane all by yourself would be the biggest step and I guess the regulator agrees.  The theory then is that type training should just be a matter of honing a set of pre-existing skills.  Having to clean up somebody else's mess during that training is really a whole other discussion all to itself.

[John Swallow]

Andrew is quite correct; I don't think TC considers advanced training as "real" training and it may be partly to do with the qualifications required to give ab initio training and the fact that you don't have to be an instructor to give "advanced training".

  During my flying career, I spent over nine years and several thousand hours instructing on pistons, jets, and helicopters but have less than 100 hours of ab initio training.  So, in the eyes of TC, I am a neophyte. 

I do think that pilots who previously qualified as instructors should be able to count hours given in advanced training towards maintaining their categories.  All the ground and flight instructional techniques required to give ab initio training are will be utilized by those used to doing so while engaged in advanced training. 

[Colonel]

Exactly.  Decades of wrecked taildraggers strewn across the
country might indicate that perhaps better flight instruction
could be indicated.

Checking someone out on a Pitts legally only requires a PPL
(if you are not compensated, a CPL if you are) but teaching
someone to land one of those is certain to turn whatever hair
you have left grey.  And you are morally obligated to teach
them how to unspin it, too.  Not sure how many PPL's are up
for teaching the six-pack.

Sorry to keep harping about the Pitts.  It is just an example
of an extremely unforgiving airplane which is somehow a
certified aircraft requiring [i]no extra training[/i] to fly.  This is
not always a good idea - see the SFARs for the R22 and MU2
which vastly improved safety.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ident-rate

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[code]Exactly.  Decades of wrecked taildraggers strewn across thecountry might indicate that perhaps better flight instructioncould be indicated.[/code]


I rely get confused when the new generation flight instructors go on about how poor the flight training was decades ago.


When I got my PPL in 1953 we learned to fly on tail wheel airplanes because that was all there was available for training on.


What I can't figure out is why one of today's Canadian class 1 instructors think I was poorly trained and the same instructor can not fly a simple tail wheel airplane.


Can anyone out there explain that to me?

[Rookie Pilot]

My first question to anyone bitching about wages, what exactly are you first doing to get off your lazy ass, smoking reefers and playing call of duty, to make yourself more valuable to an employer?


Gosh the entitlement pisses me off. 


99% of  people have had it so bloody easy and everything handed to you. 


Have no f---ing idea what struggle even means.


Rant over.

[Colonel]

As far as I can tell, there are three different kinds of flight instructors
in Canada:

1) those that work for less than legal minimum wage for an FTU, but
are compensated by PIC hours, and move on as fast as they can;

2) those that work for a puppy mill.  Like working for a drug cartel,
I suppose it's good work if the ethics of what you're doing doesn't
bother you;

3) those that are self-employed

Door #3 is attractive, but as a rest of lobbying from ATAC
TC has enacted enormous regulatory barriers to entry for
an FTU.

TC admits it has nothing to do with safety or quality of flight
training - these restrictions don't exist in the USA, and TC
accepts FAA pilot licences on par (see IPL).

See the Wheat board, or the milk marketing board for more
details about TC FTU requirements.

[Slick Goodlin]

[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=7712.msg21485#msg21485 date=1514996233]
As far as I can tell, there are three different kinds of flight instructors in Canada:

1) those that work for less than legal minimum wage for an FTU, but are compensated by PIC hours, and move on as fast as they can;

2) those that work for a puppy mill.  Like working for a drug cartel, I suppose it's good work if the ethics of what you're doing doesn't bother you;

3) those that are self-employed[/quote]
I've done all three, though surprisingly the one I regret was the self-employment.

[Liquid Charlie]

Personally I think the whole system needs an overhaul. Instructors need to go to school to learn how to be instructors. I don't mean just throwing some dollars at a flight school and getting the rating. I mean an intensive course, likely a year longer possibly more learning how to teach. Shocking ? - compare it to what a teacher needs to do to qualify. Make it a profession and the salaries will follow. When I see the knowledge base of an instructor trying to become a line pilot I can't figure out how they had the skill set to teach something they obviously have not even come close to mastering. It should be a profession with dedicated teachers, certainly not what we have today. It's like having a grade 8 grad go back and teach primary school.