Another Airbus disappears.

[David MacRay]

Egypt Air flight MS 804. Vanished just before entering Egyptian airspace.

I am glad I had a chance to go to Cairo when I did. I would be a bit more nervous to go these days. Then again my mother inlaw was worried when I took her daughter and grand daughter, then she went to Turkey while they were having a few months of civil demonstrations. Maybe things are not as scetchy as the media makes it look.

Still seems strange for these planes to vanish with all the GPS reporting systems. Is the sattelite coverage that sparse over there?

[Eric Janson]

Still plenty of older aircraft flying without anything more sophisticated than a mode S transponder.

The aircraft I fly do not have any kind of automated tracking system installed (no CPDLC or ADS-B). I fly 11-12 hour oceanic flights well outside of radar coverage. Our flights disappear off Flight Radar 24 and similar and reappear when in radar coverage.

We have a waiver to operate without ADS-B.

[David MacRay]

I'm making things worse by participating. It seems like there are more "unexplainable" things happening than there should be.

I would think there were few spots between Paris and Cairo that are not covered by several control zone radars.

[David MacRay]

They have found debris and are trying to confirm it is flight MS 804. Still not good but at least it has not vanished without trace.

[Eric Janson]

Modern ATC systems display information sent by the mode S transponder - not all have the capability to function as a traditional radar where waves are reflected off the aircraft structure.

Military radar will have this capability and I imagine those tapes are being looked at. Countries are reluctant to reveal their capabilities so it may take time for this data to be released. This data may help determine where the aircraft impacted the sea.

There are satellites that have the ability to detect infrared heat "blooms" - I'm sure that this data will be looked as well. Same conditions apply as above.

A quick search shows water depths of up to 3000m in this area - however it is nowhere near as isolated as the search area for MH370. I imagine they will be able to locate the wreckage fairly quickly.

[Liquid Charlie]

As usual the news networks have gone from news to speculation and a long line of so called experts. Whatever happened to the facts and only the facts. It's all about network ratings and it seems that the formula is obviously bullshit baffles brains. It seems the larger the disaster the less I watch the news. I must be in the minority or just too fucking old but I really don't care who saved aunt millie's cat or how long you sat in your car. I can hardly wait for all the stupid background shit attached to the Olympics. Again, I just want to watch the games not hear everyone's life story. Grumpy old men -- ya got to love us -- ROTFLMFAOOooooo

[David MacRay]

I will attempt some better sef control on the next one.

What wound me up was the reports, "Uh, an airplane has gone off radar." Then nothing of substance.

I am guessing if anyone knows something they are not sharing.

[BCPilotguy]

It amazes me, in this day and age that any airplane can disappear without a trace, let alone a large commercial aircraft.


This is $170, and can be found much cheaper with sales and rebates:



[img]http://images.ttcdn.co/media/i/product/ ... cc6ca.jpeg[/img]


Service runs $150 per year and there are very few places in the world that it doesn't work. 


[img width=500 height=384]http://www.findmespot.com/images/spotco ... 6_2015.jpg[/img]


If you need more than that you can spend a bit more money on the DeLorme InReach, which operates on the Iridium network and has global coverage.


I'm sure that large operators have more powerful services at their disposal as well.


A satellite tracker is awfully cheap insurance that doesn't require the device to survive a crash (like an ELT) or a manual activation (like a PLB) to work. 


Now I'm a simpleton that flies a 50 year old Cherokee, so perhaps I'm not aware of all the issues, but I see no reason why large commercial aircraft (or any aircraft, really) aren't equipped with something that provides more reliable tracking than ground based radar. 

[David MacRay]

This article http://news.sky.com/story/1699713/egypt ... ar-cockpit claims to have a copy of flight data sent to ground stations from the aircraft.

I presume the only reason that data does not contain position reports, is they are given by the crew and it would cost the airline to update the systems to do so.

Is that a reasonable guess?

I have been of the same mind set as BCPilotguy for a few years now. I know even those units are not going to be 100%, but they are probably good to change from 0 idea where to start looking, to well over 80 or 90%. The plane was here five minutes ago. Makes a much smaller area to start a search.

[Liquid Charlie]

I'm thinking it all boils down to one word "compliant" Airlines will not adopt new technology unless they are required to by a change in regulations. If they meet the existing code/laws they will merrily continue on. It's all about money, a minor cash outlay for private aviation, like the unit above cost just a few dollars but for it to be upgraded to "airline" and international standards is millions.


We use to laugh at Air Canada. We had area nav and they were still going airways and from VOR to VOR. even now they lack GPS modules in their FMS systems on aircraft in their fleet.


A company I was working for operated a leased B76 and no GPS. The cost of adding that to the FMS system was a cool mil. Sad but true money trumps safety. Airlines could be safer but choose to meet what is required by law and in most cases nothing more.