It is interesting reading the opinions of pilots regarding working for companies that intimidate their employees into breaking the rules.
Aviation is a small community and the owners of law abiding companies can find out anything they want to know about a prospective pilot.
I will not even consider having a pilot that worked for these well known rule breakers flying for our company..
Period...
Working for companies with a history of rule breaking.
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ScudRunner-d95
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm
It is not so cut and dry Chuck, young hungry pilots looking for a seat flying might not know these companies reputations. Albeit today you can check on here or Avcanada and their is always a lot of information to sift through. Half of that is disgruntled employees or pilots with an axe to grind and often somewhere in the middle is the truth. But when faced with another summer flipping burgers or the chance to go commit aviation off they go.
Thinking back to my first gig I was just pumped to have a seat flying, I didn't think it was sketch or a bad operation at all. That company was shut down by TC not long after I got there. Still today I don't think they should have been shut down especially compared to other operations I have seen that continue to plant people every few years. My second gig the CP/Owner would second guess every flight and was far too cautious it was almost comical it was his accusations of me "scudrunning" that spawned my name change on AvCanada all them years ago. I later learned he didn't have much more time than me and it was all scenic flying tourists with daddy's money bankrolled his own "airline".
The next job I got, my new boss called up my former boss to get the dirt. He proclaimed there is no way I had that much time! He went on to explain that I pushed weather and would talk back to him. He was right about the last part and I continue to this day to call BS on things when I hear it. With that my new boss called me back and said it's a long drive up here, but an even longer drive back if you can't fly. I told him I can fly and packed my things and headed up north again, when I arrived after a two day marathon 18 hour per day driving trip sleeping in the back of my truck fighting off mosquitoes and cold I had made the 2500 KM drive.
Needing a shower and rest he said "well your here, lets go see if you can fly", "fuck me, really" I thought, ok boss lets go. Took off in a type I never flew before he pulled the throttle as we climbed through 500 feet, I snapped it back around 180 brought her in a greased it on. I think he thought it was a fluke so he said lets make it a touch and go back in the air we went, same drill same outcome. He then asked me to keep it under 500 feet and pointed to a lake on a map and said I need to go there.
Exhausted and a little cranky I found the lake, satisfied he said "lets follow the Alaska highway back", just as I was settled in figuring mission accomplished his hand shot up and yanked back the throttle saying "its your lucky day we are over the one road for hundreds of miles make me proud!" Piece of cake, Ill line up on it and take her down to 100 feet then go around, closer and closer to the highway we descended, my hand on the throttle ready for his command to go around, any second now, wait I think he actually wants me to land on the highway? "I have never landed on a highway", I thought to myself. "wait am I allowed to land on a highway?" "oh fuck ya! this is awesome I'm going to land on a fucking highway!" down we went the trees seemed closer than when driving, touching down right on centre line then he says "well that enough lets get out of here" I advanced the throttle and took off heading back to base.
Shutting down, he looked over and said "well you got the job, I can't believe you landed on the fucking highway!" ;D
Don't judge a book by its cover, just because his previous associates might have "dubious records" isn't a reason to write them off. You might find a kid who can really fly a plane. I spent three seasons up there and enjoyed every minute of it even the shitty days.
Thinking back to my first gig I was just pumped to have a seat flying, I didn't think it was sketch or a bad operation at all. That company was shut down by TC not long after I got there. Still today I don't think they should have been shut down especially compared to other operations I have seen that continue to plant people every few years. My second gig the CP/Owner would second guess every flight and was far too cautious it was almost comical it was his accusations of me "scudrunning" that spawned my name change on AvCanada all them years ago. I later learned he didn't have much more time than me and it was all scenic flying tourists with daddy's money bankrolled his own "airline".
The next job I got, my new boss called up my former boss to get the dirt. He proclaimed there is no way I had that much time! He went on to explain that I pushed weather and would talk back to him. He was right about the last part and I continue to this day to call BS on things when I hear it. With that my new boss called me back and said it's a long drive up here, but an even longer drive back if you can't fly. I told him I can fly and packed my things and headed up north again, when I arrived after a two day marathon 18 hour per day driving trip sleeping in the back of my truck fighting off mosquitoes and cold I had made the 2500 KM drive.
Needing a shower and rest he said "well your here, lets go see if you can fly", "fuck me, really" I thought, ok boss lets go. Took off in a type I never flew before he pulled the throttle as we climbed through 500 feet, I snapped it back around 180 brought her in a greased it on. I think he thought it was a fluke so he said lets make it a touch and go back in the air we went, same drill same outcome. He then asked me to keep it under 500 feet and pointed to a lake on a map and said I need to go there.
Exhausted and a little cranky I found the lake, satisfied he said "lets follow the Alaska highway back", just as I was settled in figuring mission accomplished his hand shot up and yanked back the throttle saying "its your lucky day we are over the one road for hundreds of miles make me proud!" Piece of cake, Ill line up on it and take her down to 100 feet then go around, closer and closer to the highway we descended, my hand on the throttle ready for his command to go around, any second now, wait I think he actually wants me to land on the highway? "I have never landed on a highway", I thought to myself. "wait am I allowed to land on a highway?" "oh fuck ya! this is awesome I'm going to land on a fucking highway!" down we went the trees seemed closer than when driving, touching down right on centre line then he says "well that enough lets get out of here" I advanced the throttle and took off heading back to base.
Shutting down, he looked over and said "well you got the job, I can't believe you landed on the fucking highway!" ;D
Don't judge a book by its cover, just because his previous associates might have "dubious records" isn't a reason to write them off. You might find a kid who can really fly a plane. I spent three seasons up there and enjoyed every minute of it even the shitty days.
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Chuck Ellsworth
O.K.
Let me focus on what I meant.
Let me focus on what I meant.
I was referring to pilots who apply to known sketchy companies and stay there to build time to move up to 704/705 building time in that environment.It is interesting reading the opinions of pilots regarding working for companies that intimidate their employees into breaking the rules.
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Chuck Ellsworth
Well that is a good question.So do all of these pilots actually break the rules, or do some of them work for the sketchy employer and fly according to the CARs?
My position on this is why take the chance the pilot is prone to risk taking just by their environment during their past, when I can hire pilots who are known to be safe and demonstrate good airmanship.
You of course are free to hire anyone you want to.
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Strega
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 1:43 am
when I can hire pilots who are known to be safe and demonstrate good airmanship
Thats the problem cat.. they are few and far between, and if you can find them, they cost $$$$
If youre a sleazebag operator, you push your wet behind the ear pilots to do whatever, and really dont accept any of the risk, as the guy in the seat is the one that is left holding the bag when shit goes wrong.
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Chuck Ellsworth
For true it is getting more difficult to find high quality pilots.
We are in a business where cost for safety is not a problem, just imagine the cost of an accident with an aircraft full of top level executives on board.
Most of our flying will be helicopters and generally they are better trained and follow the rules of safety than fixed wing pilots.
And we already have our charter companies chosen.
We are in a business where cost for safety is not a problem, just imagine the cost of an accident with an aircraft full of top level executives on board.
Most of our flying will be helicopters and generally they are better trained and follow the rules of safety than fixed wing pilots.
And we already have our charter companies chosen.
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ScudRunner-d95
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm
As much as Pilots complain about Contrails here in Alberta, we made our own bed. I hate to see the guy with 2000 hours flying singles in the bush past up for an instructor with 500 MPIC, Contrails filled a void when companies where running amok planting oil patch workers many years ago. It's a sad state of affairs when a CP isn't able to be the judge and say Joe Smith is a good and safe pilot but according to this table here this guy is better so he gets the position to fly Mr. Big and his oil workers around.Chuck Ellsworth wrote: We are in a business where cost for safety is not a problem, just imagine the cost of an accident with an aircraft full of top level executives on board.
On a side note I remember an FO complaining to me he was getting fucked by contrails for his upgrade and then told me my time in the bush shouldn't count as it wasn't related to this IFR flying stuff down here. ::) I just smiled when he pasted it on halfway down 10,000 foot runway on a clear day.
Ya stupid fuckign bush pilots don't know they can use this other end of the runway with these nifty backwards highspeed exits.
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