Interesting Read: Rethinking the Briefing

[Trey Kule]

Speaking of staying on topic, I thought this was about rethinking the briefing......
Not showing pictures of accidents.....
I would like to hear constructive posts about rethinking the briefing.  Rants against four bars, not so much.

BTW...what the hell does needles in donuts mean anyway?

[Colonel]

[quote]what the hell does needles in donuts mean anyway[/quote]

Don't worry about it.  You'll never see it.

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=7206.msg19615#msg19615 date=1507159902]
You need a new line of work that suits you more, where
you don't have to use technology that confuses you,
any more.

Caveman.

If you can't make yourself happy, though, try to
keep the needles in the donuts and try not to land
on the taxiway.
[/quote]

You need to get engineers like yourself to stop killing so many people with your faulty designs.

Troglodyte.

Try to design a plane that doesn't go into reverse thrust by itself.

[Trey Kule]

I assume, CS, that your comment was meant to be unflattering.....


But you never answered the question, and your dismissive manner of answering , what , I think was a fair question, is interesting from someone who claims to be an excellent instructor.


What does needles in donuts mean?  Never heard it until the last short while..

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Trey Kule link=topic=7206.msg19620#msg19620 date=1507164612]
I assume, CS, that your comment was meant to be unflattering.....


But you never answered the question, and your dismissive manner of answering , what , I think was a fair question, is interesting from someone who claims to be an excellent instructor.


What does needles in donuts mean?  Never heard it until the last short while..
[/quote]

The VOR/ILS indicators on some little Cessna and Piper aircraft, which some people think is a huge deal to have flown on a practice ILS somewhere, have a little circle at the center of the instrument where the loc and GS needle cross each other when on the centerline of both. Depending on your type of airliner, the term "Box on Cross" could be more applicable.

Of course, a half decent instructor will make that well known when making an explanation. A poor instructor will leave the recipient of their information with more questions than answers.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Actually needles in the donut  was a common phrase decades ago and for sure it included a lot more airplanes than " Little Cessnas and Pipers. "


We used that description forty five years ago when I started flying the DC3.


The Colonel posted a good story a few posts back about how keeping the needles rock solid in the donut makes for a true aviator, rather than just a sloppy driver.

[Colonel]

[url=http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ILS+needles+in+the+donuts]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ILS+needles+in+the+donuts[/url]

Kids these days.  Can't fly, don't know what a search engine is.

Can you at least make decent coffee?

[JW Scud]

You can see it here,

https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1366&b ... ag4MPPs1LM:

[Trey Kule]

Thanks Scud.
An interesting saying.


I will have to take a quick peak in one of the aircraft type four bar-envy flies to refresh my memory with regard to flying with 1/2 century old instruments. Is there a clever little saying for using an HUD? Kind of sad really, when someone clings to the " way we did it back then, when
real men were pilots"  as a badge of honour.  Even if they were not part of that group.
Particularily when I was literally flying planes before they were born,,,amazing how I made it through the decades never seeing the needles in the donut.  But then I Could never quite understand how I was able to fly thousands of hours safely in taildraggers without FB-Envy's wisdom. 

I would however prefer to discuss rethinking the briefing.  Particularily the role of SMS in proactively making certain briefings are relevant, and used properly, and training departments in auditing and reviewing them.
It seems if briefings are becoming to long and irrelevant to the point of being unsafe practices, these two departments are not doing their jobs...
I wonder how many pilots have filed an SMS that their SOP's arent up to snuff....

[Nark1]

Ahhh yes, briefings...
I don't many.


In Army Aviation we are required to brief 4 things:
1. Airport we are flying too
2: Type of approach
3: Missed approach point (DA/MDA)
4: Missed approach procedure. 


So it can be as little as this," ILS to runway 36 at Bumfuck.  DA is 1167, Missed is climb straight to 200' left turn to BFE VOR and hold."


Airline:
Well, poop, just look at the screenshot from our FOM.  It's a lot more than 4 items.