What does the POH say about flap settings?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It is breathtaking and astounding reading some of this stuff here.


A simple discussion regarding flap use degenerates into micro examining the difference between a few models of the Cessna 172.


The most idiot proof training airplane ever designed for flight training.


Astounding , just breathtaking..

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Shiny link=topic=5846.msg15516#msg15516 date=1490200283]
While I have no doubt as to the existence of an issue, in no place in my mind, and I sort of doubt one would have left the factory in such condition, that the severity would preclude safe control of the airplane. Even in spite of how every pilot's favorite stories involve them fighting for and often losing control of a vicious bucking bronco in a Homeric epic struggle. I will concede that indeed there may be some poor mistreated, mishapen, out of rig beast that such danger holds true for flying out there, but I'll take my chances with my apparent risky behavior.
[/quote]

Check, at least I have provided warning by a Cessna test pilot on type(likely a real expert) and likely not on misrigged aircraft. Information not to be taken lightly by those who are not fools. As for pax.....


Looking at another forum on the subject,

Beginning with the 1972 model year ('73 for European-built models) 172s have a larger dorsal fin. This apparently eliminated the "pitch-down" problem. But the mild pitch ‘pumping’ motion resulting from flap outboard-end vortex impingement on the horizontal tail at some combinations of side-slip angle, power, and airspeed. remained. Which might explain the original pilot manuals being like below:

1958 C-172: “prohibited”
1959 C-175: “prohibited”
1966 C-172F: “prohibited”
1972 C-172L (first year of the big dorsal): “should be avoided”

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]Check, at least I have provided warning by a Cessna test pilot on type(likely a real expert) and likely not on misrigged aircraft. Information not to be taken lightly by those who are not fools. As for pax.....[/quote]


Can you post accidents caused by what you describe?

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5846.msg15523#msg15523 date=1490206333]



[quote]Check, at least I have provided warning by a Cessna test pilot on type(likely a real expert) and likely not on misrigged aircraft. Information not to be taken lightly by those who are not fools. As for pax.....[/quote]


Can you post accidents caused by what you describe?
[/quote]

Nope, only the expert opinion and the POH's stating for sideslips with flaps extended, greater than 30 degrees.

1958 C-172: “prohibited”
1959 C-175: “prohibited”
1966 C-172F: “prohibited”
1972 C-172L (first year of the big dorsal): “should be avoided”

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]Nope, only the expert opinion and the POH's stating for sideslips with flaps extended,[/quote]


I do not recall every POH I have ever read so are you saying when flying those airplanes you are prohibited from any sideslip with flaps extended?


Obviously when flying those models you must teach kick out from the crab correction like we do in large jets to prevent dragging the engines when landing with a cross wind.

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5846.msg15527#msg15527 date=1490209262]
[quote]Nope, only the expert opinion and the POH's stating for sideslips with flaps extended,[/quote]


I do not recall every POH I have ever read so are you saying when flying those airplanes you are prohibited from any sideslip with flaps extended?


Obviously when flying those models you must teach kick out from the crab correction like we do in large jets to prevent dragging the engines when landing with a cross wind.
[/quote]

With full flaps extended according to this POH
http://www.monticellofc.org/aircraft/C172F%20POH.pdf

Page 2-9

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I cant get it..


What exactly was the prohibition?

[JW Scud]

Page 2-9

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Interesting.


Obviously I either forgot about that model or never flew it.


I was finished instructing and had let my rating lapse by 1965 which would account for not having flown one.

I was flying what I consider the best airplane in bush flying that year, A Beech 18 on floats.

[JW Scud]

[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5846.msg15556#msg15556 date=1490233915]
Interesting.


Obviously I either forgot about that model or never flew it.

[/quote]


Well hopefully Shiny will take this into consideration if he ever flies a model like this. It may be the most idiot-proof aicraft made but I think that just about every type(and it may just be certain versions of a type) have their 'gotcha'. This is a good example of where micro-examining various versions of a type can save your life.