Turkish cargo jet crash kills at least 37 in Kyrgyzstan village

[Colonel]

I remember years ago, flying past Daytona, and ATC
was fucking around a BA Boeing inbound.  Kept him
ridiculously high, then at the last moment, she gave
him the slam dunk.

The BA pilot was priceless.  With his impeccable,
expensive British accent he replied to ATC,

"Madam, this is an aeroplane, not a brick"

with just a roll of the tongue on the "r" of brick.

[GRK]

Blaming ATC for ending up in a Go Around is a cop out in my opinion, if you let it get to that state without saying anything then it's your own fault. By saying "if you guys had done it right the first time etc," is letting ATC fly your profile for ya! You are in charge and you get to call them out and hopefully waaaaay before you end up unstabilised and close to the ground on any approach...

[Colonel]

Right ... ATC, in the history of aviation, has never
ever fucked anyone up.

Sounds like these guys tried to take a bite out of
the shit sandwich handed to them.  If their hero trick
had worked - it usually does - we'd have never heard
about this.

[Colonel]

Most ATC are ok, but like any group of people there
are bound to be some real losers in there.

ATC has a button and a mike, and frequently quite an
attitude, and that's about all they have in the game. 

ATC screws up, I die, they get grief counselling and a
promotion to management, or at least long term disability. 
You know, a paid permanent vacation.  Very worse case,
they have to keep their job.

No one remembers, but there was once a bad day
over Europe.  ATC neglected a couple of flights
(mistake #1) and a conflict developed.  Hey, shit
happens.  ATC mistake #2: their instructions to
separate worsened the conflict, and ensured a
mid-air.  Thanks, ATC.  Pilots have just been handed
a shit sandwich and told to take a bite.

Now, TCAS is supposed to take over.  When people
screw up, automation is supposed to save us.

And in fact, the TCAS did give correct resolution
but unfortunately it's opposite instruction confused
the Russian pilot of one of the two airplanes.  See,
decades of cold war doctrine and hundreds of years
of culture ensure that peasants do what they are
told by their elites (eg GCI) or [i]fucking else[/i], and
this Russian pilot ignored the squawking box in the
dash and did what ATC told him to do.

Mid-air.  Everyone dead.  Oh yeah, except the highly
paid Swiss (I think) ATC, who went on with their life
as if nothing had happened.

Now, you would think this was the end of the story,
and it usually is.  But Hilary Clinton tells us the Russians
are very bad people for exposing the truth about her.

And one of the Russian relatives of the dead people
hunted down that ATC, and when the ATC opened his
door, the Russian killed him.

Once.  Just once, ATC had some skin in the game.  But
all Russians are very bad people, we are told by the elites. 
I'm not sure if they're in our [b]basket of deplorables[/b] or not.

PS  This was all from memory.  As usual, you probably
think I made it up.  I can google it all for you, and correct
all the detail.

Ain't the interwebs great?

[Colonel]

I'd love to know the story behind this:

[youtube][/youtube]

Some good questions and lessons there,
even if no one is interested in learning them.

[pdw]

The pilots of Colonel's video example above decide to continue approach to the airport but to the suitable runway, once rwy22 (rwy 211T)  became excluded for VFR (forced by the loc-fail .. see ATC audio ... and 109degree  tailquartering) in 320degree wind at 23kts gusting 35kts. ATC didn't immediately give alternatives when the loc kicks out, so then it becomes precarious with the 70ft tree/displaced threshold  ( which forces a 50:1 slope in the last half mile in regular component already). The PIC in this pertinent example didn't care  at that point in his/her approach about calling the VFR emergency for rwy 31 .. esp once  pressed to do it.

[GRK]

Ahhhh...Human Factors...ain't they great? My Colonel...my point is: As a PIC of any flight, we have the lawful responsibility for the safe and legal operation and are allowed legally to override the regs/ATC instructions if we deem it the safest way to ensure the safe outcome of any emergency. Hence the actions taken by the pilots at JFK. The DHL/Russian mid air was caused by a number of traps...the largest being the WILLFUL ignoring of the TCAS climb RA given by the TCAS. They descended instead into the DHL 757...yes ATC was poor,  but they actually gave the correct instructions after they fell asleep at the switch. The regs were changed after this tragedy requiring improved TCAS training, for both ATC and Operators. Improved equipment on all transport category aircraft as well. To blindly follow without reason or knowledge is criminal and that fault lies with those who ignore it. If ATC gives me an instruction that has a potential to kill me I get to say no...as long as I have the knowledge to back it up. Two memorable mid airs in modern times have both involved eastern block former USSR operators flying old Soviet equipment and WILLFUL disregard of TCAS and ATC commands and instructions. That's the Human Factors part I'm suggesting. A PIC may choose to override if he has to if it keeps the damn thing flying, but if he ignores for no apparent reason (language or equipment might be a factor, along with ego...remember Avianca in JFK?) He may face action against him. Or worse. I'm not siding with any particular agency, only suggesting that mistakes can happen and with proper training, taking the correct actions needed to trap, mitigate and avoid these types of conflicts, and allowing that they happen, will help the numbers will drop. This is true for any type, even fully automated modern aircraft.
Cheers,
GRK

Cheers...
GRK