I would like to take a brief time out from being a shitdisturber and one of the forum bullies to ask a question of all you experts out there.
Which of the following types of brakes do you find are most demanding to operate?
(1) Mechanical.
(2)Hydraulic.
(3)Pneumatic.
(4) Vacuum.
(5) Electrical.
What airplane were those brakes on?
Brakes:
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Four Bars
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:48 am
Demanding in what way? Smooth, ability to moderate precisely, most reliable? Carbon, steel?
The worst for me was the Airbus; shuddering, grabbing, howling depending upon the stack temperature and that stupid lurch when the parking brake was set or released. There was a mandate that the parking brake could not be set or released when the toe brakes were applied, to avoid damage to the parking-brake valve.
To set the parking brake, it was necessary to come to a stop using the toe brakes, release them and then set the parking brake. Of course, if we were light, all engines running, on a downhill or with a tailwind, the plane would begin to roll during this and would stop abruptly when the parking brake set, making us appear like amateurs to the customers and not endearing us to the cabin crew who on their feet.
Same with releasing the parking brake; feet off the pedals. When the parking brake was released, the airplane would either give a little shudder or a larger lurch forward, depending upon the conditions.
I hated doing this for thousands of hours and started holding the brakes while setting or releasing the parking brake, Airbus could just change the parking-brake valve under warranty.
Everyone knows the Airbus is fly-by-wire. Fewer know that they are also thrust-by-wire, steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire.
This means that( and was cautioned in the manual eventually) whenever a generating source was going to be switched-as in starting another engine during taxi out or shutting one down for the taxi in-one had to ensure that no steering or braking inputs would be required during this change, so only do it when stopped or on a long and straight taxiway.
Before the caution appeared in the manual, I once ( and only once!) shut down an engine while turning onto the gate lead-in line. During the nano-second loss of power when the bus switched from the engine to the APU, the nose-wheel steering system momentarily defaulted to commanding the nose wheel to centre and then return to my selected turn angle This made the airplane lurch drunkenly and very-rapidly from side to side. As I was turning left at the time and leaning to the left looking out the side window, the window smacked me hard on the forehead, leaving a bruise.
Funny how airplanes can get even with pilots this way. The last one to smack me in the head was the Cub when it ground looped on me...
The worst for me was the Airbus; shuddering, grabbing, howling depending upon the stack temperature and that stupid lurch when the parking brake was set or released. There was a mandate that the parking brake could not be set or released when the toe brakes were applied, to avoid damage to the parking-brake valve.
To set the parking brake, it was necessary to come to a stop using the toe brakes, release them and then set the parking brake. Of course, if we were light, all engines running, on a downhill or with a tailwind, the plane would begin to roll during this and would stop abruptly when the parking brake set, making us appear like amateurs to the customers and not endearing us to the cabin crew who on their feet.
Same with releasing the parking brake; feet off the pedals. When the parking brake was released, the airplane would either give a little shudder or a larger lurch forward, depending upon the conditions.
I hated doing this for thousands of hours and started holding the brakes while setting or releasing the parking brake, Airbus could just change the parking-brake valve under warranty.
Everyone knows the Airbus is fly-by-wire. Fewer know that they are also thrust-by-wire, steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire.
This means that( and was cautioned in the manual eventually) whenever a generating source was going to be switched-as in starting another engine during taxi out or shutting one down for the taxi in-one had to ensure that no steering or braking inputs would be required during this change, so only do it when stopped or on a long and straight taxiway.
Before the caution appeared in the manual, I once ( and only once!) shut down an engine while turning onto the gate lead-in line. During the nano-second loss of power when the bus switched from the engine to the APU, the nose-wheel steering system momentarily defaulted to commanding the nose wheel to centre and then return to my selected turn angle This made the airplane lurch drunkenly and very-rapidly from side to side. As I was turning left at the time and leaning to the left looking out the side window, the window smacked me hard on the forehead, leaving a bruise.
Funny how airplanes can get even with pilots this way. The last one to smack me in the head was the Cub when it ground looped on me...
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Chuck Ellsworth
Now that was a superb post four bars!!!
For me it was the Anson Mk5, only the British could design and build such a braking system.
It was vacuum over hydraulics and there was a time lag between when you applied the brake and when the brake activated which made for some real exciting moments because when nothing happened the natural instinct was to push harder and when they took hold they were very effective.
On landings I would just lightly fan them which got rid of most of the lag, but in a X/wind it was a true bitch of a machine.
For me it was the Anson Mk5, only the British could design and build such a braking system.
It was vacuum over hydraulics and there was a time lag between when you applied the brake and when the brake activated which made for some real exciting moments because when nothing happened the natural instinct was to push harder and when they took hold they were very effective.
On landings I would just lightly fan them which got rid of most of the lag, but in a X/wind it was a true bitch of a machine.
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Nark1
Four Bars, which bus were you flying?
Our series A32x-232 aren't that bad. The only complaint is they heat up instantly.
I can attest, engines at idle it wants to move forward.
Our series A32x-232 aren't that bad. The only complaint is they heat up instantly.
I can attest, engines at idle it wants to move forward.
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Eric Janson
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:31 am
[quote author=Four Bars link=topic=4487.msg11794#msg11794 date=1476056017]
Demanding in what way? Smooth, ability to moderate precisely, most reliable? Carbon, steel?
The worst for me was the Airbus; shuddering, grabbing, howling depending upon the stack temperature and that stupid lurch when the parking brake was set or released. There was a mandate that the parking brake could not be set or released when the toe brakes were applied, to avoid damage to the parking-brake valve.
To set the parking brake, it was necessary to come to a stop using the toe brakes, release them and then set the parking brake. Of course, if we were light, all engines running, on a downhill or with a tailwind, the plane would begin to roll during this and would stop abruptly when the parking brake set, making us appear like amateurs to the customers and not endearing us to the cabin crew who on their feet.
Same with releasing the parking brake; feet off the pedals. When the parking brake was released, the airplane would either give a little shudder or a larger lurch forward, depending upon the conditions.
I hated doing this for thousands of hours and started holding the brakes while setting or releasing the parking brake, Airbus could just change the parking-brake valve under warranty.
Everyone knows the Airbus is fly-by-wire. Fewer know that they are also thrust-by-wire, steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire.
This means that( and was cautioned in the manual eventually) whenever a generating source was going to be switched-as in starting another engine during taxi out or shutting one down for the taxi in-one had to ensure that no steering or braking inputs would be required during this change, so only do it when stopped or on a long and straight taxiway.
Before the caution appeared in the manual, I once ( and only once!) shut down an engine while turning onto the gate lead-in line. During the nano-second loss of power when the bus switched from the engine to the APU, the nose-wheel steering system momentarily defaulted to commanding the nose wheel to centre and then return to my selected turn angle This made the airplane lurch drunkenly and very-rapidly from side to side. As I was turning left at the time and leaning to the left looking out the side window, the window smacked me hard on the forehead, leaving a bruise.
Funny how airplanes can get even with pilots this way. The last one to smack me in the head was the Cub when it ground looped on me...
[/quote]
I have 13 years of experience on 3 airbus fly-by-wire types (A322/A332/A343(5))
I've always set and released the parking brake whilst keeping pressure on the pedals - never seen any restrictions on doing this.
The only thing to be careful of is when applying brakes on landing is to depress the pedals slightly - [b]then wait for the brakes to grab[/b] - then increase pedal pressure. There is a slight lag initially due to the brake-by-wire system.
The brakes on the airbus work extremely well imho - all the models I've flown have very good stopping capability. The brakes do heat up rather fast so if you don't have brake fans a bit of planning may be required. I operate into airports where the surface temperature gets to 48C - we try not to use the brakes too much on landing.
My company is smart enough to prohibit taxi on anything less than all engines operating.
Demanding in what way? Smooth, ability to moderate precisely, most reliable? Carbon, steel?
The worst for me was the Airbus; shuddering, grabbing, howling depending upon the stack temperature and that stupid lurch when the parking brake was set or released. There was a mandate that the parking brake could not be set or released when the toe brakes were applied, to avoid damage to the parking-brake valve.
To set the parking brake, it was necessary to come to a stop using the toe brakes, release them and then set the parking brake. Of course, if we were light, all engines running, on a downhill or with a tailwind, the plane would begin to roll during this and would stop abruptly when the parking brake set, making us appear like amateurs to the customers and not endearing us to the cabin crew who on their feet.
Same with releasing the parking brake; feet off the pedals. When the parking brake was released, the airplane would either give a little shudder or a larger lurch forward, depending upon the conditions.
I hated doing this for thousands of hours and started holding the brakes while setting or releasing the parking brake, Airbus could just change the parking-brake valve under warranty.
Everyone knows the Airbus is fly-by-wire. Fewer know that they are also thrust-by-wire, steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire.
This means that( and was cautioned in the manual eventually) whenever a generating source was going to be switched-as in starting another engine during taxi out or shutting one down for the taxi in-one had to ensure that no steering or braking inputs would be required during this change, so only do it when stopped or on a long and straight taxiway.
Before the caution appeared in the manual, I once ( and only once!) shut down an engine while turning onto the gate lead-in line. During the nano-second loss of power when the bus switched from the engine to the APU, the nose-wheel steering system momentarily defaulted to commanding the nose wheel to centre and then return to my selected turn angle This made the airplane lurch drunkenly and very-rapidly from side to side. As I was turning left at the time and leaning to the left looking out the side window, the window smacked me hard on the forehead, leaving a bruise.
Funny how airplanes can get even with pilots this way. The last one to smack me in the head was the Cub when it ground looped on me...
[/quote]
I have 13 years of experience on 3 airbus fly-by-wire types (A322/A332/A343(5))
I've always set and released the parking brake whilst keeping pressure on the pedals - never seen any restrictions on doing this.
The only thing to be careful of is when applying brakes on landing is to depress the pedals slightly - [b]then wait for the brakes to grab[/b] - then increase pedal pressure. There is a slight lag initially due to the brake-by-wire system.
The brakes on the airbus work extremely well imho - all the models I've flown have very good stopping capability. The brakes do heat up rather fast so if you don't have brake fans a bit of planning may be required. I operate into airports where the surface temperature gets to 48C - we try not to use the brakes too much on landing.
My company is smart enough to prohibit taxi on anything less than all engines operating.
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
There are strange break systems out there. Riding breaks to taxi is a no no on most aircraft but there also needs to be common sense with that. 2 Otter is a prime example. I have watched guys that are so brain washed that use of breaks was so forbotten that they we over temping the engines in reverse. Brakes still remain cheaper than engines.
I have no experience on NEXGEN but on the boeing classics the standard procedure was to beat down the taxi speed and on the 72 #2 in idle reverse. Heavy aircraft hot breaks is a killer.
Leaning to taxi - J3 with heal breaks and a good teacher on how to get by without relying on breaks.
Brit aircraft with pneumatic thumb operated breaks - now that was an exercise in chewing gum and walking at the same time - ;D - very few now have experienced that system
DC3 shoe breaks - would fade to nothing very fast - best teacher on how to ground loop on purpose to stop an aircraft.
DC3 bladder breaks - very effective but never set the parking break after use -
DC3 spot breaks (disc) best morf of all the rest.
Convair 340/440 and some 580's no anti-skid and will flatten tires in a heartbeat - hydraulic break system at the dawn of heavy piston and turbo conversions- straight shot full system pressure to the breaks and would lock the wheels. Like the DC6 the 340/440 Convair had reverse.
I have no experience on NEXGEN but on the boeing classics the standard procedure was to beat down the taxi speed and on the 72 #2 in idle reverse. Heavy aircraft hot breaks is a killer.
Leaning to taxi - J3 with heal breaks and a good teacher on how to get by without relying on breaks.
Brit aircraft with pneumatic thumb operated breaks - now that was an exercise in chewing gum and walking at the same time - ;D - very few now have experienced that system
DC3 shoe breaks - would fade to nothing very fast - best teacher on how to ground loop on purpose to stop an aircraft.
DC3 bladder breaks - very effective but never set the parking break after use -
DC3 spot breaks (disc) best morf of all the rest.
Convair 340/440 and some 580's no anti-skid and will flatten tires in a heartbeat - hydraulic break system at the dawn of heavy piston and turbo conversions- straight shot full system pressure to the breaks and would lock the wheels. Like the DC6 the 340/440 Convair had reverse.
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