Center lines...
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Chuck Ellsworth
How would you like to be sitting in the back of one of these airline machines with someone who lands anywhere on a wide runway and they had an emergency and were forced to land on a short runway just a few feet wider than the main gear?
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
[quote author=Liquid Charlie link=topic=4425.msg11690#msg11690 date=1475669306]
The instrument scan is becoming a lost art and hand flying for most is just a necessary evil until they get that autopilot.
[/quote]
This is really baffling to me. I understand not being able to hand fly, so many possible reasons, mistakes, out of practice, don't work at it...
Not wanting to hand fly? I like to pilot airplanes. I'm trying to make the plane go the height, direction I want to most efficiently get to a destination. Of course there are great uses for automation. I certainly would never think, "Boy it would be swell to just ride in an airplane for work." I enjoy it when ever I do it, even more the times I do it well.
Seriously, is it the view?
The instrument scan is becoming a lost art and hand flying for most is just a necessary evil until they get that autopilot.
[/quote]
This is really baffling to me. I understand not being able to hand fly, so many possible reasons, mistakes, out of practice, don't work at it...
Not wanting to hand fly? I like to pilot airplanes. I'm trying to make the plane go the height, direction I want to most efficiently get to a destination. Of course there are great uses for automation. I certainly would never think, "Boy it would be swell to just ride in an airplane for work." I enjoy it when ever I do it, even more the times I do it well.
Seriously, is it the view?
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Chuck Ellsworth
The regulator is the one who thinks brand new pilots should be the ones who teach flying.
How many other occupations do you know of where the apprentice is the teacher?
How many other occupations do you know of where the apprentice is the teacher?
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
Everybody wants to hand fly a climbing and descending aircraft from takeoff and to landing but not many today have the urge or want to fly straight and level for a few hours scanning and peering at a group of instruments.
Ah -- Chuck their lies the oxymoron of todays' aviation. I recently spent so time sitting in a lawn chair at the Brampton Flight Centre -- It was an interesting time watching the pairs drift out to the aircraft and figure out who was the instructor and who was the student. Usually the guy with the 3 suit flight bag was the student -- lmfaooooo -- damn -- I guess the days of a sectional or a topo map in the back pocket are gone. I recently had someone ask me how I could possibly fly and aircraft without a radio and not run into someone.
Ah -- Chuck their lies the oxymoron of todays' aviation. I recently spent so time sitting in a lawn chair at the Brampton Flight Centre -- It was an interesting time watching the pairs drift out to the aircraft and figure out who was the instructor and who was the student. Usually the guy with the 3 suit flight bag was the student -- lmfaooooo -- damn -- I guess the days of a sectional or a topo map in the back pocket are gone. I recently had someone ask me how I could possibly fly and aircraft without a radio and not run into someone.
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Chuck Ellsworth
Where is the bottom Charlie?
Will they eventually issue pilot licenses to people who pay a tax to get one with no flight training or flight tests?
Back to landing on the centre line.
A truck driver has to remain in a lane on the highway that is only about three feet wider than the width of his truck.
How come so many so called professional pilots need a hundred and fifty feet wide lanes?
As far as I am concerned it is because they are not as skilled operating their equipment as the truck driver is.
Will they eventually issue pilot licenses to people who pay a tax to get one with no flight training or flight tests?
Back to landing on the centre line.
A truck driver has to remain in a lane on the highway that is only about three feet wider than the width of his truck.
How come so many so called professional pilots need a hundred and fifty feet wide lanes?
As far as I am concerned it is because they are not as skilled operating their equipment as the truck driver is.
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Eric Janson
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:31 am
[quote author=David MacRay link=topic=4425.msg11695#msg11695 date=1475689169]
[quote author=Liquid Charlie link=topic=4425.msg11690#msg11690 date=1475669306]
The instrument scan is becoming a lost art and hand flying for most is just a necessary evil until they get that autopilot.
[/quote]
This is really baffling to me. I understand not being able to hand fly, so many possible reasons, mistakes, out of practice, don't work at it...
Not wanting to hand fly? I like to pilot airplanes. I'm trying to make the plane go the height, direction I want to most efficiently get to a destination. Of course there are great uses for automation. I certainly would never think, "Boy it would be swell to just ride in an airplane for work." I enjoy it when ever I do it, even more the times I do it well.
Seriously, is it the view?
[/quote]
When I worked in Asia I was one of the few Captains who would let the F/O fly manually. I was quite happy to let things develop - on a few occasions I had to issue verbal commands to stop a rapidly deteriorating situation.
Most Captains wanted the autopilot on at 100' on departure and off on short final. Autothrust off was a big no-no. Doesn't say much about their comfort level.
What was happening was an expansion at the Airline and guys were being upgraded and transferred far too quickly. I flew with quite a few Captains who were very obviously not comfortable in the seat.
Failure rates on the Command course were well above 50% - nobody ever thought to ask 'Why?'
I was once part of a crew where the F/O was doing an evaluation flight - it resembled an initiation and had no training or teaching value at all. They were doing things that shouldn't be done outside the Simulator on a line flight with passengers.
I flew with some very talented F/O who could actually fly the aircraft - they failed the Command course for the most bizarre reasons.
It was interesting to see the incidents move between fleets as this happened. I'm very surprised that this Airline hasn't had an accident.
When I left the holes in the cheese were lining up for real!
[quote author=Liquid Charlie link=topic=4425.msg11690#msg11690 date=1475669306]
The instrument scan is becoming a lost art and hand flying for most is just a necessary evil until they get that autopilot.
[/quote]
This is really baffling to me. I understand not being able to hand fly, so many possible reasons, mistakes, out of practice, don't work at it...
Not wanting to hand fly? I like to pilot airplanes. I'm trying to make the plane go the height, direction I want to most efficiently get to a destination. Of course there are great uses for automation. I certainly would never think, "Boy it would be swell to just ride in an airplane for work." I enjoy it when ever I do it, even more the times I do it well.
Seriously, is it the view?
[/quote]
When I worked in Asia I was one of the few Captains who would let the F/O fly manually. I was quite happy to let things develop - on a few occasions I had to issue verbal commands to stop a rapidly deteriorating situation.
Most Captains wanted the autopilot on at 100' on departure and off on short final. Autothrust off was a big no-no. Doesn't say much about their comfort level.
What was happening was an expansion at the Airline and guys were being upgraded and transferred far too quickly. I flew with quite a few Captains who were very obviously not comfortable in the seat.
Failure rates on the Command course were well above 50% - nobody ever thought to ask 'Why?'
I was once part of a crew where the F/O was doing an evaluation flight - it resembled an initiation and had no training or teaching value at all. They were doing things that shouldn't be done outside the Simulator on a line flight with passengers.
I flew with some very talented F/O who could actually fly the aircraft - they failed the Command course for the most bizarre reasons.
It was interesting to see the incidents move between fleets as this happened. I'm very surprised that this Airline hasn't had an accident.
When I left the holes in the cheese were lining up for real!
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woodzi
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=4425.msg11698#msg11698 date=1475695286]
Where is the bottom Charlie?
Will they eventually issue pilot licenses to people who pay a tax to get one with no flight training or flight tests?
[/quote]
Like they do already with the boating license? It is not necessary to have even seen a boat or gone near water to get a boating license.
Where is the bottom Charlie?
Will they eventually issue pilot licenses to people who pay a tax to get one with no flight training or flight tests?
[/quote]
Like they do already with the boating license? It is not necessary to have even seen a boat or gone near water to get a boating license.
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JeppsOnFire
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:45 am
Maybe the prerequisite for an instructors license should be an ATPL. Someone with an ATPL has some experience and they also have something almost as important: they are widely employable.
What that should do for flight training is that there would be increased experience, better pay (due to limited supply) and these people wouldn't be necessarily be 'stuck' instructing, they may have actually chosen to do it (improving quality of training). It would likely cost more to train, reducing the number of potential pilots, which would eventually reduce supply in the industry and increase wages (which would be great to pay back the increased training costs).
See, I fixed the industry and it's not even noon yet. You're welcome.
What that should do for flight training is that there would be increased experience, better pay (due to limited supply) and these people wouldn't be necessarily be 'stuck' instructing, they may have actually chosen to do it (improving quality of training). It would likely cost more to train, reducing the number of potential pilots, which would eventually reduce supply in the industry and increase wages (which would be great to pay back the increased training costs).
See, I fixed the industry and it's not even noon yet. You're welcome.
