[quote]idiot proof machine[/quote]
The Airbus engineers have extremely low
opinions of pilots. They'd really like to
get rid of them.
EK 521 Interim Report Released
-
TundraTire
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:42 am
All that education + real-world experience, yet you think the 777 autothrottle system is faulty and to blame for 2 hull losses.
Yup, you're smart.
I'm just disappointed you didn't toss in any hangar pics, or formation shots with your kid.
PS Nice job adding the DC6 to the conversation Chuck, stellar!
Yup, you're smart.
I'm just disappointed you didn't toss in any hangar pics, or formation shots with your kid.
PS Nice job adding the DC6 to the conversation Chuck, stellar!
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]Yup, you're smart[/quote]
True. Compared to you, I'm fucking Einstein.
[quote]you think the 777 autothrottle system is faulty[/quote]
Evidence would suggest that it isn't working
for the bottom 10% of the SOP monkeys.
How many more wrecks until you think it
needs improvement?
You honestly don't see the parallel to the
dutch roll problem of the B707? You
probably have never even fucking seen
a 707.
Assclowns like you remind me of the tech
reps that Lockheed, GE and Litton would
send to my father, an engineer and test
pilot at CEPE. They'd show up without a
soldering iron or a socket set, and he'd
send them home.
Oh, I forgot. You fly much hotter stuff
than the F-104. He was just a fucking
stupid airshow pilot, after all.
[quote]formation shots with your kid[/quote]
Ooh, jealous. Your kid's probably in rehab.
For variety, here's a formation shot of me
with the aforementioned F-104 test pilot:
[img width=500 height=337][/img]
Feel free to post your pictures of you flying
formation aerobatics at low altitude. Oh
yeah, there aren't any. You and your SOP
monkey buddies struggle to fly straight
and level from one large certified airport
to another, and sometimes you succeed.
True. Compared to you, I'm fucking Einstein.
[quote]you think the 777 autothrottle system is faulty[/quote]
Evidence would suggest that it isn't working
for the bottom 10% of the SOP monkeys.
How many more wrecks until you think it
needs improvement?
You honestly don't see the parallel to the
dutch roll problem of the B707? You
probably have never even fucking seen
a 707.
Assclowns like you remind me of the tech
reps that Lockheed, GE and Litton would
send to my father, an engineer and test
pilot at CEPE. They'd show up without a
soldering iron or a socket set, and he'd
send them home.
Oh, I forgot. You fly much hotter stuff
than the F-104. He was just a fucking
stupid airshow pilot, after all.
[quote]formation shots with your kid[/quote]
Ooh, jealous. Your kid's probably in rehab.
For variety, here's a formation shot of me
with the aforementioned F-104 test pilot:
[img width=500 height=337][/img]
Feel free to post your pictures of you flying
formation aerobatics at low altitude. Oh
yeah, there aren't any. You and your SOP
monkey buddies struggle to fly straight
and level from one large certified airport
to another, and sometimes you succeed.
-
Eric Janson
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:31 am
This accident raises a number of issues - it will be interesting to see what role each played in this accident[b].
Airlines
[/b]They are pushing for more automation and less crew involvement in flying the aircraft. Training is being reduced to what the regulator and the manufacturer considers to be the minimum required to operate the aircraft safely. It is simply impossible to train anything outside the "Standard Failures" under this system.
Airlines have recognised the reduction in crew skill levels as increasing numbers of Pilots get their Commercial Licence and move on to large jets. Their first ever multi-engine Command will be on a large jet. The response has been to mandate the use of automatics and prevent any true manual flying from taking place. My friends at Emirates confirm this is the case.
Some Airlines have pushed hard to have their nationals upgraded. This had led to people being promoted far above their level of ability. I've seen this first hand at an Asian Airline. It's not pretty and the incidents exist to show what happens when this is done. I'm amazed they haven't had a crash at my former Airline - all the pieces were there for one to happen. You could see the holes in the cheese lining up for real! (not just a CRM exercise).[b]
Manufacturer
[/b]As the aircraft become ever more complex the manuals contain less and less information. There is enough information to be able to fly the aircraft safely and handle the "Standard Failures".
System integration is not always as transparent as it could be. Example:- Boeing Autothrust has TOGA switch inhibited on the ground (makes sense) but on a landing followed by a go-around there is no indication whether the aircraft is in ground or flight mode. System response may be different than expected.To make things worse the scenario may not have been trained or addressed.
[b]
Crew
[/b]Each crew is different and depending on the personalities and abilities the level of performance will vary greatly.
A sharp crew will respond correctly to an unexpected situation whilst others will not. I've seen huge differences in performance between different crews - even though everyone has been trained to the same standard.
And finally - there's the TOXIC work environment at a lot of Airlines. One example below:-
[url=http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58266 ... ement.html]http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58266 ... ement.html[/url]
Airlines
[/b]They are pushing for more automation and less crew involvement in flying the aircraft. Training is being reduced to what the regulator and the manufacturer considers to be the minimum required to operate the aircraft safely. It is simply impossible to train anything outside the "Standard Failures" under this system.
Airlines have recognised the reduction in crew skill levels as increasing numbers of Pilots get their Commercial Licence and move on to large jets. Their first ever multi-engine Command will be on a large jet. The response has been to mandate the use of automatics and prevent any true manual flying from taking place. My friends at Emirates confirm this is the case.
Some Airlines have pushed hard to have their nationals upgraded. This had led to people being promoted far above their level of ability. I've seen this first hand at an Asian Airline. It's not pretty and the incidents exist to show what happens when this is done. I'm amazed they haven't had a crash at my former Airline - all the pieces were there for one to happen. You could see the holes in the cheese lining up for real! (not just a CRM exercise).[b]
Manufacturer
[/b]As the aircraft become ever more complex the manuals contain less and less information. There is enough information to be able to fly the aircraft safely and handle the "Standard Failures".
System integration is not always as transparent as it could be. Example:- Boeing Autothrust has TOGA switch inhibited on the ground (makes sense) but on a landing followed by a go-around there is no indication whether the aircraft is in ground or flight mode. System response may be different than expected.To make things worse the scenario may not have been trained or addressed.
[b]
Crew
[/b]Each crew is different and depending on the personalities and abilities the level of performance will vary greatly.
A sharp crew will respond correctly to an unexpected situation whilst others will not. I've seen huge differences in performance between different crews - even though everyone has been trained to the same standard.
And finally - there's the TOXIC work environment at a lot of Airlines. One example below:-
[url=http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58266 ... ement.html]http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/58266 ... ement.html[/url]
-
esp803
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 11:47 pm
Two of you on here are absolute shit at arguing your points, you bring up unrelated experience and expect the masses to worship your skill.
Have you ever performed open heart surgery?
No, but I flew low level acro, designed software, was around when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, my dad was super cool, I've given out hundreds of type ratings on L-29/39, I flew for the stars and an insurance company insured me.
But have you ever performed open heart surgery?
No, But I'm an expert. Here's a picture of something that has nothing to do with the topic, look at my skills.
To those modern heavy pilots who have been posting interesting experience related posts, kudos, I'm sure at least some will learn a thing or two.
Have you ever performed open heart surgery?
No, but I flew low level acro, designed software, was around when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, my dad was super cool, I've given out hundreds of type ratings on L-29/39, I flew for the stars and an insurance company insured me.
But have you ever performed open heart surgery?
No, But I'm an expert. Here's a picture of something that has nothing to do with the topic, look at my skills.
To those modern heavy pilots who have been posting interesting experience related posts, kudos, I'm sure at least some will learn a thing or two.
-
Air Mail
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:59 am
I'm just going to leave this here for all to measure their dicks with.
[img width=500 height=323]http://themetricmaven.com/wp-content/up ... 24x662.jpg[/img]
[img width=500 height=323]http://themetricmaven.com/wp-content/up ... 24x662.jpg[/img]
-
Air Mail
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:59 am
Maybe it is or isn't an engineering flaw, the one thing in all the 777 cases is poor pilot skill/knowledge.
While a go around is a rare event for most, it is taught from the early stages and tested regularly in sim/training. Even if one fucked up the auto throttles, it's quick to notice no feeling of thrust being applied. It gets hashed not to fly by the seat of your pants now a days, but sometimes your ass is a good indicator to question what is really happening.
Regardless, one thing I don't see mentioned here is fatigue. Given EK's nature of flying and pushing crews, it's likely a common occurrence. I know I, and I'm sure most of you have mucked something up while fatigued. Is it possible given such a fatigue state not to know/feel trust being applied? Perhaps. In the heat of the battle it's possible things get missed. Regardless, minus something severely mechanical, we ourselves are to blame, as the buck stops with us in control. I've seen some really good pilots fuck something up at some pilot. I know I've been humbled a few times
While a go around is a rare event for most, it is taught from the early stages and tested regularly in sim/training. Even if one fucked up the auto throttles, it's quick to notice no feeling of thrust being applied. It gets hashed not to fly by the seat of your pants now a days, but sometimes your ass is a good indicator to question what is really happening.
Regardless, one thing I don't see mentioned here is fatigue. Given EK's nature of flying and pushing crews, it's likely a common occurrence. I know I, and I'm sure most of you have mucked something up while fatigued. Is it possible given such a fatigue state not to know/feel trust being applied? Perhaps. In the heat of the battle it's possible things get missed. Regardless, minus something severely mechanical, we ourselves are to blame, as the buck stops with us in control. I've seen some really good pilots fuck something up at some pilot. I know I've been humbled a few times
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]System integration is not always as transparent as it could be[/quote]
Careful - stupid fucking airshow pilots have the
same opinion. So, it's the wrong one, by definition.
[quote]poor pilot skill/knowledge[/quote]
Jesus, you're stupid. Airplanes have to be safe
to operate by the bottom 10% of the SOP monkeys
out there, because you can't get rid of them.
[quote]measure their dicks with[/quote]
Oh. You want to talk about your penis now.
Ok, fly to Ottawa - try not to run your servicable
aircraft off the end of runway 25 like the other
gold bars - and go to tower C. You and Arlo
can take turns bending each other over his desk
and fucking each other bareback up the ass.
At the moment of orgasm you can scream out
what [b]BAD PEOPLE[/b] stupid fucking airshow pilots are.
[quote]Training is being reduced[/quote]
This is one thing that bugs me. Someone that
earns over us$300K per year tax free and works
10 days per month could probably arrange a little
flying on the side.
I know a guy in Montreal that flies A320's for
a living. Has a stupid fucking Pitts S-2C, says
it keeps his skills sharp - they deteriorate when
he just flies the A320.
The people here probably think Pearson and Sully
are pussies compared to them, but they flew gliders
on their time off.
Careful - stupid fucking airshow pilots have the
same opinion. So, it's the wrong one, by definition.
[quote]poor pilot skill/knowledge[/quote]
Jesus, you're stupid. Airplanes have to be safe
to operate by the bottom 10% of the SOP monkeys
out there, because you can't get rid of them.
[quote]measure their dicks with[/quote]
Oh. You want to talk about your penis now.
Ok, fly to Ottawa - try not to run your servicable
aircraft off the end of runway 25 like the other
gold bars - and go to tower C. You and Arlo
can take turns bending each other over his desk
and fucking each other bareback up the ass.
At the moment of orgasm you can scream out
what [b]BAD PEOPLE[/b] stupid fucking airshow pilots are.
[quote]Training is being reduced[/quote]
This is one thing that bugs me. Someone that
earns over us$300K per year tax free and works
10 days per month could probably arrange a little
flying on the side.
I know a guy in Montreal that flies A320's for
a living. Has a stupid fucking Pitts S-2C, says
it keeps his skills sharp - they deteriorate when
he just flies the A320.
The people here probably think Pearson and Sully
are pussies compared to them, but they flew gliders
on their time off.
-
Chuck Ellsworth
Obviously your comprehension skills are non existent Tundra Tire.
I brought the DC6 into the conversation as an example of the level of skill it takes to hand fly big airplanes, with and without automation.
Obviously you do not understand the subject of actually flying an airplane so I will not bother trying to explain it any further to you.
I brought the DC6 into the conversation as an example of the level of skill it takes to hand fly big airplanes, with and without automation.
Obviously you do not understand the subject of actually flying an airplane so I will not bother trying to explain it any further to you.
-
Air Mail
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 2:59 am
Fuck Colonel, it sounds as if someone fucked you up the ass dry this morning.
In my post I agreed with you that pilot skill is deteriorating, at no point did I attack you. Guess I'm stupid for agreeing with you???
If you find the mm ruler as insulting (again, was for all not just you) then go see a doctor. Clearly your hormones are imbalanced. But that's ok, this is the age of gender equality. Be who/what you wanna be. Be the most *fabulous* Colonel you can be. If you think you're gods gift to aviation, then yes, that ruler is for you and all the other ego tard muffins out there.
Where did I attack air show pilots? No fucking where! I happen to think of them as highly skilled, but even they are human and some have crashed. Same with military, and every other sector of this forsaken "dumbed down" industry/profession/hobby.
In my post I agreed with you that pilot skill is deteriorating, at no point did I attack you. Guess I'm stupid for agreeing with you???
If you find the mm ruler as insulting (again, was for all not just you) then go see a doctor. Clearly your hormones are imbalanced. But that's ok, this is the age of gender equality. Be who/what you wanna be. Be the most *fabulous* Colonel you can be. If you think you're gods gift to aviation, then yes, that ruler is for you and all the other ego tard muffins out there.
Where did I attack air show pilots? No fucking where! I happen to think of them as highly skilled, but even they are human and some have crashed. Same with military, and every other sector of this forsaken "dumbed down" industry/profession/hobby.
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