Getting A Checkout On A New Type

[Colonel]

There are two types of pilots:

1) pilots that unctuously insist upon getting
dual on type before first solo flight

2) pilots that get in a new type and go

While internet smugness and virtue will obviously
be on the side of door #1, when you depart the
keyboard and enter reality, it starts to look at
little less obvious.

To confuse things, pilots can't even agree what
a "new type" is.  For example, someone stepping
up from a C150 to the mighty C152 could insist
upon 10 hours of dual.  I might not.

And it's pretty easy to find an instructor that
is willing to give you 10 hours of dual - you know,
milking - on the mighty C152.

But what about when you get off the beaten path?

An old friend of mine bought a Skybolt.  Insurance
insisted upon a flight instructor with time on type
to check him out.  We went flying.  He asked me
afterwards if I had time on type.  I answered,
"I do now".

Clearly, there are [b]GOOD PEOPLE[/b] (who always
choose door #1) and there are [b]BAD PEOPLE[/b] (who
choose door #2).

At least where I was, there simply was no flight instructor
with Skybolt time.  There might have been one in Arizona.

Because I am a [b]BAD PERSON[/b] I can't even remember all
the different types I have soloed with no dual.

And it's not because I turned it down.  There was simply no
one (forget instructor/CPL, I would have taken a student pilot)
that would give me dual.

I had to fly the Ryan PT-22 solo, first flight.  Same for the
450hp Stearman.  Same for the hot-rod Harvard (700hp, 3-blade,
clip-wing - did surface acro in it, first flight).  Same for the
PT-19 Fairchild (pussy cat).  Same for the Beech 18 (another
pussy cat).

The Beech 18 situation really pissed me off, because so many
older pilots, all full of shit, have plenty of hero stories on the
Beech 18 but they all vanished - every single fucking one of
them - when I wanted dual.  So again it's solo, first flight.

I was contracted to fly a Piaggio Royal Gull to Belize, sight
unseen.  Should I have asked the young FTU instructor for
some dual on it?!  How ludicrous.

Many years ago, when I started flying the C421, I approached
the airport local expert on type, who claimed to have many
thousands of hours on type, doing survey in Africa.  He blew
me off.  What an asshole.  I did not exactly shed a tear when
he died a while back.

I flew a Waco biplane a couple months back.  Flew the UPF-7
before the instructor was born, but not the YMF-5C.  Young
instructor insisted on demo'ing the first landing.  Pooched
it - flared much too high.  My landing after that was a very
nice wheelie, with the instructor crying because I used
forward stick after landing to hold the tail up, because he
had told me the tailwheel shimmied.

Which is a round-about way of saying:  just because someone
has time on type, doesn't mean they can fly it better than
you can.  In fact, they might try to kill you.

What do you do, when the person giving you dual is a
really shitty stick?!

Oh, homebuilts.  I can't count the number of homebuilt
types that I have flown without a checkout.  Again, no
one to check you out.

Because I don't have any time on type, should I let
the owners do the first flights and kill themselves?

The smug internet pilots would say, "Yes!" because
it leaves them in a position of virtue.  Safely on the
ground, of course.

In mathematics we refer to these smug pilots as the
"trivial solution" - a whole bunch of zeros.

Now, I don't know as much about aviation as a smug
internet pilot, but here's a suggestion.  Go out and
get:

1) an engineering degree from an accredited university
2) an ATPL
3) an SAC
4) thousands of hours on Pitts
5) forty years spinning wrenches

and you'll have a pretty good idea how to self-checkout.

[Colonel]

182 RG ... 5 hours with an instructor

A checkout flight with a knowledgeable instructor
(ho ho ho - good luck finding one) would not hurt
in terms of systems knowledge of the RG.

Or you could just read the POH, for the normal and
emergency gear procedures, and go fly it.

GC-1B Globe Swift

Funny you mention that one.  I might add that after
all these decades, they are usually heavily modified
and poorly placarded which complicates the checkout.

(That unlabelled switch? What does it do?  Who knows?!)

An airline pilot imported a TCM IO-360 210hp Swift
recently.  I got a friend (Swift owner, PPL) to check
him out, after I got him up to speed on the TCM IO-360.
See, he knew the airframe really well - he just needed
to learn about that particular engine.

S-2B pitts

I think you're down to Dez in Oshawa - Gerry put QSI
up for sale, last I heard.  He's 84!!  I know Dez does
acro training.  Not sure how much landing training he
does.

Oh yeah - Luc in LaChute is just getting started.  He
might be able to help you out.


One possibility is getting training in the USA.  TC won't
recognize it because they don't acknowledge the existence
of the FAA CFI, and your insurance company might give
you static, but in the case of exotic types, fly the many
thousands of miles to a real expert, silly paperwork issues
aside.


In some cases, there might be only one guy in the world
who can give you dual on type.  He might be in New Zealand.
This is especially true of the "warbird" world, which I might
recommend you treat like old dynamite - gently - because
they will try to kill you.  Warbirds are one of the very few
kinds of airplanes with a worse safety record than homebuilts.

[Colonel]

You only need a (little bit) of liability insurance -
you DO NOT need hull-in-motion, despite what
your FTU might tell you.

I remember when they brought that stupid
$100,000 liability insurance requirement out
in 1993.  Before that, it was like the USA -
no insurance required.

And it depends where you're flying.  Over
swampland, you're not likely to do much
damage to stuff on the ground in the
event of a forced landing.  Over Toronto,
a different story.  I'm sure every bystander
that witnessed it would sue you for PTSD -
very popular in Toronto, especially amongst
the wankers that fly yellow homebuilts.

[Colonel]

TC wont acknowledge FAA CFI dual

It gets even more complicated than that.  Even
the definitions of how time is logged is different.

Last time I flew with an FAA CFI, he put the flight
time in both PIC and DUAL columns in the entry in
my logbook.  Think about that for a while.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The Globe Swift was a real nice flying little airplane.

However it was not a real performer because it only had 85 H.P......but it did have an aeromatic prop.

Anyhow I really like the Swift.

[digits]

There are two types of pilots:

1) pilots that unctuously insist upon getting
dual on type before first solo flight

2) pilots that get in a new type and go

...

So, is this an offer to let pilots fly your planes without a checkout ? I'm more than willing to hop in an go in a new type, problem is, I have only found one airplane soo far where I could do that...

[Rookie Pilot]

I think the answer is, it depends on many factors.


When I moved from the 172 RG  to my 182 RG, not only was it my first real type transition -- though I have a touch of 206 and 205 time -- I was extremely rusty having not flown much in the recent past. So a good checkout made sense, was required by insurance. I didn't mind, and it blended into some good recurrency training time.  Of course, for those with multiples of my time and different types, may not matter.


Differences are a 172 won't drive off the left side of the runway too fast, 182 and 206 will. And an RG with those tiny tires -- yeah I get why it's had its share of RLOC accidents. Also, it's heavier In pitch. Gotta use trim, which isn't a real factor in a 172 as much, otherwise it's easy to crush the nosewheel.


Now if someone wanted me to fly a 206 tommorrow, I'm probably fine with a self checkout and careful review of the POH, To me it's just not as big a jump.

[Colonel]

without a checkout ? I'm more than willing to hop in an go in a new type, problem is, I have only found one airplane so far

I am not communicating clearly.

It's not that I want to self-checkout
(but I will admit that it is an acquired taste)
but that there is NO ONE competent to
give dual (forget paper qualifications) on
unusual types.

What do you do in that situation?  Let
the airplane sit forever?  I suppose that
"no aviation" is one valid option for safe
aviation, and one that is heavily promoted
by TC.  Remember, it is not their job to
promote aviation.  It is their job to get
squelch aviation.

Generally, there is "that guy" at the airport
that gets stuck doing first homebuilt flights,
homebuilt checkouts, weird/tailwheel type
checkouts, warbird training, etc.

It is not fun, being "that guy".  You don't
earn anywhere near enough money to justify
the risks you are taking, and if you work very
hard for a very long time and develop lots of
skill and knowledge that you give away for free,
in return for your efforts you will be envied
and hated by a certain kind of slimeball that
is often in a regulatory position, and somehow
in his dark, twisted little brain, construes you
to be a threat to his power.

Everyone knows "that guy", regardless of
paperwork, is likely to best be able to fly a
weird type of airplane, and to handle what
is going to go wrong.  It's something you
grow into, over the decades.

My old friend Freddy Cabanas was "that guy"
at the Key West airport.  I suppose I was
"that guy" at my tiny airport and surrounding
area.

You want that job, go ahead and take it.
Trust me, there are a whole lot of other
ways to earn a whole lot more money with
a whole lot less risk, while avoiding the
hatred and dirty tricks of the bureaucrats.

[digits]

without a checkout ? I'm more than willing to hop in an go in a new type, problem is, I have only found one airplane so far

I am not communicating clearly.

It's not that I want to self-checkout
(but I will admit that it is an acquired taste)
but that there is NO ONE competent to
give dual (forget paper qualifications) on
unusual types.

Ah too bad, I was hoping it was an offer  ;D

If it makes you feel better, in certain European countries a checkout is legally required before you can fly another type. So yes, with C150 experience you need to get a checkout to fly a C152. Legally. Not an insurance requirement, a hard aviation law. Untill 8 years ago, you even had to fly once a year per type to stay current, or you needed another checkout. Legally. The only upside there was that a checkout could technically be all ground school, but an instructor still had to sign you out. At least here in Canada you can legally check yourself out, if only the insurance company agrees. Marginally better.

This is probably one of those things that will fix itself: no legal checkout people available => people will be unable to comply with insurance requirements => unable to insure => insurance company loses customers => change in policy ? With possible way higher initial premiums.

With no legal requirements for a checkout, people like you will still be asked for a checkout for personal comfort, but with less liability attached, since there was no requirement for the guy to get a checkout anyway.

Or nobody will fly cool planes ever again, that's another possibility.

[Colonel]

Insurance brokers love me.  I know most of them, they
have my info on file and there is no problem getting
approved on anything I have ever asked for.  Unlike
TC, they actually give a shit about safety.  We have
that in common.

Or nobody will fly cool planes ever again, that's another possibility

That's TC's answer.  Get rid of aviation and they
won't ever be held accountable for anything - they
can just continue to collect their salary, benefits
and pension, which is what it's all about for them.

in certain European countries a checkout is legally required before you can fly another type

Try that in the USA and you would be laughed
out of the room.  I know Canadians hate and
envy Americans, but I like them very much.