Forum Fight!!!

[Colonel]

Crunch you're an idiot

Never met him, but it's important not to leap
to incorrect conclusions.

See, if someone doesn't know very much, and
they haven't very much experience, that's ok -
they just need some training.  I call this group
of people "students" and perhaps Crunch fits
in here.  No shame being here - just a different
cohort from the old guys, is all.  Time will take
care of that.

However.  If someone doesn't know very much,
and they have lots of experience, that's NOT ok -
they have shown a consistent inability to learn
from their mistakes, a characteristic we often
see amongst TC Inspectors.

[Strega]

Colonel,


My hunch is that "crunch" falls into the latter 2 of the categories that you have gave example of.

[Colonel]

We all know people that after 10 years, have
six months experience 20 times over.  It's really
important to NOT be one of those people.  You
know, roadkill.  Or a cube dweller.


Everyone makes mistakes.  Everyone.

What matters to you is that you learn from it,
and not repeat it.  Ever again.

What matters to everyone else is that you
admit it - it's tremendously important for them
to score points against you.  Do not underestimate
this incredibly powerful emotional need of theirs. 
Be gracious, and feed their egos.  Time will even
the score, no fear  ^-^

Philosophically, make NEW mistakes.  Preferably
small ones!  And, try to learn from the mistakes
of others.  Study landmark accidents carefully, and
learn their lessons.  From my admittedly somewhat
solopsist perspective, they died teaching me a
lesson, so I should probably spend the time and
effort to learn it, so I don't.


Hell, knowledge of previous airshow accidents is
a written requirement for the ground briefing portion
of a SAC evaluation.

[Colonel]

re: Landmark Accidents.

I tend to categorize these into two groups:

1) total fuckup pilots.  Everyone that knew them,
knew they were an accident waiting to happen - it
was just a matter of where and when.

2) ok pilots that got snared in a really nasty trap
(swiss cheese) and didn't have either the awareness
of the problem or maturity of judgment to take the hit
(the known loss) to break the chain of events.


Work on your knowledge and skill so that you are
not in group (1).

Work on your awareness and judgement-making,
so that you don't end up in group (2).

[Strega]

What category does this fall in?

[CpnCrunch]

It seems to be difficult to discuss actual aviation topics on this forum without it resorting into insults and backstabbing. I'm well aware there is no qualification needed for an ME instructor. I was referring to whether Strega actually taught ME students.


I'm simply interested in discussing the mechanics of a Vmc rollover, as I've never done one in a real plane. Why the need to tell me I know fuck all about ME and acrobatics when I'm simply asking a fucking question? Jeez...


I get the impression that Strega thinks he is always right and isn't willing to learn, but hopefully I'm wrong. I'm interested in learning, hence the asking of this question and actually trying out various scenarios in the sim. (I know not the same as the real plane, but fairly close if the flight model is good).

[Colonel]

Oh boy.  Here we go again.  What is this,
three posts in a row?

re: nasty traps and known loss

When in a little bit of trouble - which could
often escalate quickly into a LOT of trouble -
and faced with two choices, which are:

A) known loss - a definite, certain outcome
which involves some damage/pain (but not
fatal or career-ending)

B) variable outcome, from getting away scott
free, ranging to death

Pilots as a breed, in the heat of the moment,
always always choose (B).  We are gamblers.
It's in our personality.  If you do not have that
characteristic, you will not progress as a pilot.

This is called "framing bias" by the shrinks.

We see posts all the time, from people completely
lacking in confidence, that are certain they are going
to crash and die on every training flight.  They do
not have the genetic personality to do what we do.

At the other end of the analog spectrum are the
raving lunatics, with far too much confidence in
their meagre skills and knowledge.  Like a nuclear
weapon, get distance from these people so you
don't get unpleasantly splattered when they
spectacularly implode.

Back on topic.  Framing bias.  When faced with
a nasty trap, the chain of events which leads
you to an accident  (possibly fatal), it can be
best to choose a certain, known loss, rather
than continuing to roll the dice.

Sorry for all of this mushy shit.  I am a math
and physics guy, but I have learned over the
decades that the most important component
of any aircraft is the particularly crappy and
inconsistent biological autopilot at the controls.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill (on the subject
of democracy), it's shitty, but it's all we've got.

[Strega]

Whatever you say Mr Crunch...

"I'm well aware there is no qualification needed for an ME instructor."

Then why insinuate that because I do not have a current instructor rating, that I must be doing something wrong or "inexperienced"? 



Go have your split s party with "little pistons"....


If you want to learn, you know where to find me.. I can take you in one of several planes, and show you. 


and YES I have taught several people ME aircraft flying, and given MANY people recurrent training because their initial ME instructors were probably similar to "little pistons"...


Like I said you "know" where I live,, come out to my hanger, and I can show you...  otherwise fuck off

[Colonel]

It seems to be difficult to discuss actual aviation topics ... without it resorting into insults and backstabbing

I know, isn't it fun?  ;D

You're probably not looking for advice from me
on this topic, but a thicker skin helps deal with
this interwebs stuff.

I remember a few decades back, when the rec.skiing
flame war ended up in court!

[CpnCrunch]

You're probably not looking for advice from me
on this topic, but a thicker skin helps deal with
this interwebs stuff.

Yeah, I have a pretty thick skin, otherwise I wouldn't still be here.


And yes, I am looking for advice from you. (Otherwise I'll just assume you're full of crap for backstabbing BPF with no evidence, along with strega and chuck). I'm assuming you have a thick skin too, so you won't be too offended for me thinking you *might* be full of crap :)