Heav(ier) Cessna singles -- how do you approach?

[Rookie Pilot]

I fly a 182 RG with 40 degree flaps, after many years in lighter 172s. Found I had to make adjustments when I first got it.  Found mine doesn't prefer like a 172 to land at idle, too much drag means firm landings. But also, too much power left on, means it floats.

So what have done, is a power on approach, once over the numbers I pull off some power, flare, pull off smoothly most of the rest while flaring 6 inches off the pavement, hold it off and land. Smooth, under control landings in all conditions. 

More flying it on though, than a traditional cessna full stall. Think it's better in stiff crosswinds. Very dependent on weight, for sure. Just me and under half tanks, better not have any or very little power in the flare. I tend to approach on the steep side.

I've seen others do a power on approach, idle power over the numbers, then a shot of power in the flare. I've done it, takes a bit more skill I think.  Full power off approach with 40 flaps, is really steep in that plane. Maybe 30 would be better when light, and could do power off that way. Should try it. Love those 40 flaps.

Curious what other 182 and 210 pilots do, who aim for something better than a safe arrival on the centerline.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Approaches and landings are what one feels most comfortable with.

For me I reduce power to zero in the final part of the approach, usually between one hundred feet above the landing surface to fifty feet above the landing surface.

I do it that way in every airplane I fly except large jets, unless there is some unusual reason not to.

[Colonel]

Not sure why you would need 40 flaps
in a 182, unless you had to descend
very steeply over an obstacle to a very
short strip.

Remember the O-1 birddog had 60 flaps -
would you use 60 flaps in your 182, if
it had them?  I wouldn't.  Beaver is the
same way - ridiculous amount of flap (50)
which you don't use all the time.

I would probably use 20 flap in the 182,
and power to idle over the runway threshold,
touch down on the runway numbers. 

The trick is to figure out what speed you need
over the runway threshold, at power reduction
time.  If you are floating in the flare, you
are too fast - take off 5 knots.  If you are
sinking and need to add power, add 5 knots.

With the drag of your constant speed prop
it should be really easy to control the airspeed.

What you're doing sounds far too complicated
for me to try to remember.

FWIW I have learned that a large aircraft almost
always should use full flap for landing, and a
small aircraft should rarely use full flap for landings.

I'm sure internet wizards will pounce on that
generalization with examples such as the Lancer
Champion - seen at every airport in Canada - but
it has served me well.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The use of power in the flare, hold off portion of a landing means a longer time in the air for any change in wind or turbulence to destabilize the flight path, height of the airplane.

[Colonel]

Look at your POH.  You have me at a disadvantage
because I do not know the model of your 182RG
and hence I cannot google the exact POH.

However I am willing to bet that 20 degrees of
flaps gets you almost exactly the same stall
speed as 40 flap.  30 and 40 flap merely give
you more drag, which as I previously mentioned
is only useful if you are flying very steep approaches
over very tall obstacles to very short strips,
which I somehow doubt is normal for you.  That
is not required at a certified airport.

This will vary by weight, and I am not a TC
Inspector "hot stick" (like ArloS, WayneF or
LairdG) but try this:

- 20 flap
- 70 knots
- power reduced to idle over runway threshold

And as mentioned above, if you float in the
flare, reduce 5 knots and try again.  If you
sink after power reduction and have to add
power in the flare, add 5 knots and try again.

A 182 (RG or not) is really not a fire-breathing
dragon.  Just remember to trim up on final so
the elevator forces are not too heavy in the flare,
so you can baby the nosewheel and not smash
it on, like all other new 182 owner/pilots.

A 182 is just a big 172, which is the easiest
trainer in the world to fly.  There is lots of stuff
that's nastier.  Try the pitch sensitivity of the
DR-109 in the flare, for example - what a receipe
for a PIO.  Similarly, be aware of the pitch
sensitivity of the Glasair III after takeoff.

Hell, I have witnessed a PIO in yaw on final
in a Glasair III!

If you want to do some real flying, buy an
hour of dual in an R22 and spend it trying
to hover in one spot.  That will teach you
more about flying than 1000 hours in a
fixed-wing Cessna.

After you learn to hover an R22 in one
flight (I did, and I'm not too bright, so
you can, too) spend another hour of dual
in the R22 learning autos.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I didn't know you have flown the R22.

I had no idea you are a real pilot.  :) :)

[Rookie Pilot]

[quote author=iflyforpie link=topic=1032.msg3885#msg3885 date=1445891477]
In the 206, I use 40 degrees of flap, all the time. Never really had a problem once I got used to it.  Sure I don't need it... but why use less if there isn't a problem?  On windy days I'll just delay the last 20 until just before the fence.

Power off over the numbers... and then a bit of power just before touchdown to give a bit more tail authority if I need it. Back side of the power curve, more power reduces speed.... have a look at the ASI if you don't believe me.
[/quote]

Thanks IFLY. Thats the answer I was after. The bit of power I find  just before  TD does help keep the nose up,  it's a heavy nose when at the fwd C of G limit, not unusal for me with 2 up none back. .  I might experiment with your method. I've just been tending to leave a bit on all the way to TD but that does use more runway.  My touchdowns are fine but always looking to refine my flying.

EDIT --  My impression is that pulling power right off  to idle at 50 feet over the numbers, at the recommended POH short field configuration of 40 flaps and 63 Kias -- less at less than gross weight -- risks banging the nose wheel, especially at a forward C of G.  The plane will stall very quickly.

The nose wheel and firewall are weak spots of all 182's, it is wise to protect it. I've never once landed on the nosewheel first.

I am happy landing at idle power but that requires more speed for elevator authority, which defeats the objective of using less runway.  With weight in the back it's less of an issue.  Even with a touch of power 2000 foot runways are no problem with lots of change given. Good enough for me.

It's not a crutch so much as I believe in being easy on the equipment. Many others don't seem to care how they land and wonder why they are fixing Oleos and shimmy dampners constantly, at best. You should see the show at my airport sometimes, the abuse of poor innocent airplanes.

However I am always willing to learn and improve.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I don't want you people to think I am anal about this subject but I have yet to fly a certified airplane that did not have enough elevator effectiveness to be safely landed power off.

I was taught to fly without the need for power as a crutch to land.

And once again that is only my own thoughts on landing and not meant to down play anyone else who feel more comfortable using their own methods....

...not wrecking the thing is the end objective.  :)