Huge, Massive, Enormous Circuits

[Colonel]

Flew twice yesterday to an airport
used by a famous (infamous?  notorious?)
Puppy Mill.

They flew enormous circuits in their
little aircraft.  I fly smaller circuits in
ex-military jets.

I have only been instructing for 25
years now, but I would love to pull
the throttle on downwind with those
guys and ask them where they were
going to land - and why wasn't it the
runway?

In the absence of traffic or tower to
mess you up, it is unsafe to choose
to fly a circuit which does not allow
for a safe landing in the event of
engine failure.

These guys are intentionally choosing
to fly unsafely.

But as long as they have gold bars
and a thick checklist, I guess that
makes it ok.

When I got back home to my tiny uncontrolled
airport a renter pilot had one of the 172's up
and guess what ... he was turning a 3 mile
final  :(

Again, I fly smaller circuits than that in jets.

What is it with this madness?  Is it a coincidence
that CPL candidates on their flight tests struggle
with the simple power-off approach from downwind
abeam the threshold?

[Colonel]

Had a thought about this.

CAR 602.01 (careless/negligent) case law
says that if you do something a "prudent"
pilot would not do, you are guilty.

Clearly, it is a prudent choice to fly a circuit
within gliding distance of the runway.

Therefore, every puppy mill student and
instructor contravenes CAR 602.01

I will ping TC Enforcement on this.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]
What is it with this madness?  Is it a coincidence
that CPL candidates on their flight tests struggle
with the simple power-off approach from downwind
abeam the threshold?[/quote]

It is the big jet pilot syndrome Colonel, it was the same in Europe where flight training is pretend you are flying an Airbus A380.

What I could never figure out is why the check list is bigger in a flight school Cessna 172 than in a A380.

Part of the reason is the down wind check list is so long in the 173 you need a five mile down wind to get through it.

Hopefully more people will find this site so we will have more people to talk to.  :)

[Gravedigger]

I like to turn on to a 10 mile final each time!  That way the carb has lots of time to heat up and melt the ice on those 30 degree days!  Safety first!  Can't argue that!  Those tight little military jets just don't face the same tiring flight problems and challenges as a Skyhawk does!

[Gravedigger]

But seriously keep it in tight!  Real tight!  Sounds like instructors extending flight time to pad the book!

[Colonel]

[quote]the down wind check list is so long in the 172 you need a five mile down wind to get through it[/quote]

The downwind check for a 172 has
perhaps 3 (?) items on it?

Carb Heat (only for really old 172's with no fuel injection)
Mixture - Rich (never touched by FTU's anyways)
Fuel Selector - Both (never touched by FTU's anyways)

What else is there?!

[quote]big jet pilot syndrome[/quote]

I'm only 6 foot 1 and 210 lbs so I'm not
that big a jet pilot, but when I fly a jet,
I guess I'm not smart enough to use a
checklist.  For takeoff all I do is:

Canopy - Locked (master caution light out)
Flaps - Set
Trims - Set (always ok)
Boards - In (shouldn't taxi out with them out anyways)

and that's all there is.

[ScudRunner-d95]

I learned to fly at Delta Airpark you had to keep it in tight for noise abatement and your head on a swivel for intruding  Boundary Bay traffic. Heck I think the circuit height was 600 feet as the ZBB boys where coming overhead at 1200. You would come in over mudbay and cross midfield and break off to the downwind, I think landing 07 you had to stay inside a tree line some home owner who wasn't friendly to aviation installed 100 feet off the end of the runway.

Only when I started doing circuits over at the other training airports did I learn about these massive cross country circuits  ::)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If you are teaching at an uncontrolled airport and traffic permits any circuit over one minute from touch and go to touch and go in light aircraft is wasting time.

[Barneydhc82]

Hi Scud:  The problem with ZBB crosscountry circuits was created when the airport opened in the early '80s and the BIG flying club felt that the circuit as depicted in the CFS was the actual size instead of just a description of the pattern.  No matter what we did or said as a controller could get those clowns to fly a proper circuit.

One of their instructors told me one afternoon to mind my own business as he knew what was required to teach an airline pilot.

It was a pleasure flying with you and Gary ...my last two students in the best training aircraft going.

Barney

[URL=http://s60.photobucket.com/user/alleyca ... 7.jpg.html][IMG]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/a ... uck017.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[ScudRunner-d95]

Thanks Barney! learned a ton from you. I would love to teach my little one to fly on a Fleet Canuck one day great training aircraft.