IFR with an iPad
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digits
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:15 am
Flying IFR on an ipad is obviously a big no no. The guy is lucky to be alive. But the controller wasn't really helping the situation too much either.
- The waypoint was fairly unclear if it was JOSRU or YASUT. It sounded like YASRU. If the guy can't find it, repeating it won't help. In retrospect, without a chart/gps/ipad it doesn't matter, but at that point, ATC didn't know that yet. If there's confusion, the pilot should ask for clarification, but it was fairly obvious he was overloaded or something was wrong. Spelling it out might have helped.
- regarding the VFR request: the controller can either do it, or not. Replies like 'I'm not comfortable with that' don't help anyone. It's either approved, or not. Be clear. Can't do VFR? Fine, tell him to divert.
- ATC having a discussion with other pilots on the frequency regarding ipads for IFR approaches is ridiculous. It tied up the frequency, distracts the other pilots and ATC, and likely stresses out that Mooney pilot even further. Discuss it afterwards on the ground all you want, don't do it on frequency when there's still a real danger the guy will spin it into the ground. ATC is on the ground with computer and internet access. They can look up the exact regulations if they want to.
- The waypoint was fairly unclear if it was JOSRU or YASUT. It sounded like YASRU. If the guy can't find it, repeating it won't help. In retrospect, without a chart/gps/ipad it doesn't matter, but at that point, ATC didn't know that yet. If there's confusion, the pilot should ask for clarification, but it was fairly obvious he was overloaded or something was wrong. Spelling it out might have helped.
- regarding the VFR request: the controller can either do it, or not. Replies like 'I'm not comfortable with that' don't help anyone. It's either approved, or not. Be clear. Can't do VFR? Fine, tell him to divert.
- ATC having a discussion with other pilots on the frequency regarding ipads for IFR approaches is ridiculous. It tied up the frequency, distracts the other pilots and ATC, and likely stresses out that Mooney pilot even further. Discuss it afterwards on the ground all you want, don't do it on frequency when there's still a real danger the guy will spin it into the ground. ATC is on the ground with computer and internet access. They can look up the exact regulations if they want to.
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David MacRay
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:16 am
I don’t disagree but I think I understand the motivation to talk on frequency.
I suspect the question was an attempt to get support on the recording. I believe a large part of ATC training is to get pilots recorded accepting or declining things.
He was asking if the guys current at IFR, knew if an iPad was acceptable for use as IFR equipment. In case it was, he didn’t want to be wrong telling the pilot it was not legal.
Sounds like the pilot was only using it for charts.
I was finally convinced an iPad was going to be ok for navigation, then this happened. Back to paper, pencil, compass and a watch for me,
I suspect the question was an attempt to get support on the recording. I believe a large part of ATC training is to get pilots recorded accepting or declining things.
He was asking if the guys current at IFR, knew if an iPad was acceptable for use as IFR equipment. In case it was, he didn’t want to be wrong telling the pilot it was not legal.
Sounds like the pilot was only using it for charts.
I was finally convinced an iPad was going to be ok for navigation, then this happened. Back to paper, pencil, compass and a watch for me,
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Colonel
- Posts: 2564
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
- Location: Over The Runway
I think ATC did the best they could in a bizarre situation. He knew that regardless of the regulations, if he wasn't careful, he could have contributed to this pilot's death.
What you need to keep in mind, is that all the old guys are gone from the pilot and ATC pool, and we have a bunch of new guys who don't know as much as you might like them to, and they're going to make some mistakes.
You guys been following the ATC goat rope from my old home town, San Carlos? It's wild.
I think it's a contract Tower. But not any longer.
What you need to keep in mind, is that all the old guys are gone from the pilot and ATC pool, and we have a bunch of new guys who don't know as much as you might like them to, and they're going to make some mistakes.
You guys been following the ATC goat rope from my old home town, San Carlos? It's wild.
I think it's a contract Tower. But not any longer.
45 / 47 => 95 3/4%
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Eric Janson
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:45 am
We use Jeppesen FD Pro on iPads at my company.
Extremely sophisticated program with lots of useful information available as long as you have a connection.
We normally enter the route/alternates and get weather/NOTAM info before heading to the aircraft.
Useful for studying unfamiliar airports ahead of time - I do a lot of that given the Global nature of operations.
It's not approved for anything but reference but the moving map display is very nice to have.
It will even show aircraft position on an approach plate.
Very useful after landing for keeping track of your position on the airport.
Extremely sophisticated program with lots of useful information available as long as you have a connection.
We normally enter the route/alternates and get weather/NOTAM info before heading to the aircraft.
Useful for studying unfamiliar airports ahead of time - I do a lot of that given the Global nature of operations.
It's not approved for anything but reference but the moving map display is very nice to have.
It will even show aircraft position on an approach plate.
Very useful after landing for keeping track of your position on the airport.
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David MacRay
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:16 am
I don’t have a problem with people using an iPad like he did.
I think it is funny the guy is a pilot but didn’t think about redundancy. The chances of an iPad failing is slim but there it is.
Maybe a paper approach plate chart for backup? How about more iPads if you want to save trees.
I think it is funny the guy is a pilot but didn’t think about redundancy. The chances of an iPad failing is slim but there it is.
Maybe a paper approach plate chart for backup? How about more iPads if you want to save trees.
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Colonel
- Posts: 2564
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
- Location: Over The Runway
Any technology can be expected to
1) blank the screen
2) freeze the screen
3) quietly start feeding you bad information
It will happen when you need it the most.
One hopes that certified electronics are more reliable than uncertified but only a fool would bet his life on either.
A guy I know had his IFR GPS fail really insidiously during a night IMC approach recently. ADS-B shows wild and physically impossible swings in the airspeed.
1) blank the screen
2) freeze the screen
3) quietly start feeding you bad information
It will happen when you need it the most.
One hopes that certified electronics are more reliable than uncertified but only a fool would bet his life on either.
A guy I know had his IFR GPS fail really insidiously during a night IMC approach recently. ADS-B shows wild and physically impossible swings in the airspeed.
45 / 47 => 95 3/4%
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Big Pistons Forever
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:05 pm
That is why I also have ForeFlight on my phoneDavid MacRay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:18 pm
I think it is funny the guy is a pilot but didn’t think about redundancy. The chances of an iPad failing is slim but there it is.
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