Flight tests

[Colonel]

Just heard back from a DPE who attended
his TC-required "remedial training".

What I am told:

- examiner is PIC.  Candidate is not permitted
to log flight test.  He is not PIC and he sure is
not logging dual.  According to TC, the flight test
does not happen.

- instrument rating never disappears from your
licence, as TC was fond of doing. 

- you don't have to write the INRAT again after
two years (I think I've written (and passed) the
INRAT 3 times now)

- instrument rating renewal is not a test and cannot
result in the revocation of your instrument rating if
you pooch it.  You just do it again.


I am skeptical of the above, as the CARs have not
been amended, and until I see it in the CARs on the
TC website, I don't believe it.

[rudderless]

PIC on a flight test varies - if a candidate is licenced/rated they can be pic, i.e. for CPL, IFR (can't file for initial) or instructor flight test.  In those cases it is decided by PE and candidate beforehand who will be pic.  For RPL/PPL/multi, it will be the PE who is pic.

Candidate can "log" the flight test, just not under dual or solo.  You can "log" anything you want, it just won't count towards a higher licence/rating, or towards your actual flight time.  So keep those things that don't count in an entirely separate column, so that it's easier to add up the stuff that does count when you need to.  For example, I kept track of all the sim training I did, and although it doesn't count as flight time, it might look good on a resume if I were to apply to Bombardier or FlightSafety or a similar organization.

[Strega]

What about if you get your logbook "certified" ?  does that count?

:)

[Colonel]

[quote]get your logbook "certified"[/quote]

Too funny, Strega.  There is absolutely no
regulatory basis whatsoever anywhere for
logbook certfication (by CP or CFI or owner)
yet TC requires AP's to see it, or they cannot
sign off a licence or rating.

[Strega]

Hey,

I just came up with a great idea!


Lets start a company to certify logbooks!

We get the candidate to sign an affidavit to the legitimacy, then we sign an certify for a "fee"

Think of the money we will make!  We can also give mountain, tailwheel, and crosswind checkouts!  Brilliant I tell ya!

[Colonel]

I have always suspected that there
is good money to be made in stickers.

I once spent 6 months of my life
importing two L39's. 

People think a 172 is hard to import. 
Try importing east bloc ex-military jets.

TC wanted to see tags - you know, FAA
8130-3 forms - for the parts installed.

I tried to explain the TC that the russians
didn't give a shit about the FAA, and
the way people got parts is that they
went over to an east bloc country, gave
the base commander a case of vodka,
and left with a shipping container full
of spares.

There are no 8130-3 forms for L39's,
I said, and that if you found an L39 with
tags, please let me know, because they
had purchased fake tags from somewhere,
and if TC wanted, I would purchase fake
tags, too, to keep TC happy, if I knew
where to buy them.

There was no more discussion about 8130-3
forms after that.

Six months of my life, down the drain.

[ScudRunner-d95]

What if I am paying for the Type Rating?  >:D

[praveen4143]

Our local DFTE sent me a copy of the latest examiner manual for me to peruse through, and the exact part about PIC is quoted below from the manual:

[quote="DFTE Manual"][b]Who is pilot-in-command?[/b]
Pursuant to CAR 401.03, unless the candidate holds a valid licence (PPL or higher) or a valid rating (multi or IFR), the examiner or CAI will be the pilot-in-command. In all cases, the examiner reserves the right to exercise all reasonable duty of care to ensure safe flight by intervening or taking control of an aircraft when any action or lack of action by the candidate seriously jeopardizes flight safety or if a breach of regulation is imminent.
(i) Pursuant to the Aeronautics Act: “pilot-in-command” means, in relation to an aircraft, the pilot having responsibility and authority for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time. The responsibility and authority of an examiner, while conducting any flight test, is illustrated by the following non-exhaustive list. An examiner:
(A) determines the route of the aircraft;
(B) establishes the conditions for the takeoff and landing;
(C) directs the candidate when conducting air exercises;
(D) manipulates the flight and power controls at their own discretion when preparing for certain exercises;
(E) intervenes, when necessary and at any time, to ensure the safe continuation of the flight;
(F) makes decisions with respect to the continuation or termination of the flight.
(ii) If the examiner performs the duties listed in the short list above, by default the Pilot Examiner effectively is the Pilot-in-Command. Whether the examiner signs off as PIC or not, he or she, as the most qualified on board, may be held responsible for any negligence or for not exercising all reasonable duty of care as any other reasonable person in the same position would have exercised.
Page 56
(iii) Duty of care refers to the circumstances and relationships which the law recognizes as giving rise to a legal duty to take care. A failure to take such care can result in the defendant being liable to pay damages to a party who is injured or suffers loss as a result of their breach of duty of care.[/quote]

I guess TL;DR version is that examiner is PIC unless the candidate can already exercise privileges of PIC on that flight. So a CPL test candidate might be PIC, but an RPP or a PPL candidate will be counting time as dual (which cannot be counted towards the minimum dual required or minimum TT required). Thanks for complicating that, TC!