Work hard.

[Colonel]

Dumb question: is this "work"?

[David MacRay]

Well, this is way off topic, which I’m mostly fine with.

I don’t call that work. Is he “at work” there?

I believe you are suggesting the time spent practicing, leading up to the skills he exhibits, was work.

Sometimes practice can be daunting, so while I refuse to call it “Working the guitar.” I probably know what you’re getting at, and agree it takes perseverance to power through and spend enough time practicing to get any good at a musical instrument.

I am honestly mystified as to why you don't have both an ATP and a PhD.

Is learning theories about yaw control from you and a few other pilots on the internet that actually care about it, then proving them at my age, by flying a few hours in a plane with conventional gear, helpful for getting either of those?

I suppose now’s as good a time as any… Thanks for your part in providing a lot of excellent theoretical flight training I missed in the 1990s when I was actually trying to get a CPL on the weekends weather permitting, flying with instructors that were mostly afraid of conventional gear.

It would have been nice to learn that stuff then. Maybe I learned some but it never stuck.

Getting compliments on landing on the centre line, being told, “Excellent landing.” and “You’re kind of a natural taildragger pilot.” While flying a Citabria this year was nice.

Not enough people mentioned, I should fly more often than three times a month back in the good old days either. That one’s moot now, I usually flew as often as I could afford to. Sometimes more, since I had a credit card.

One of the great injustices of our time, I suppose.

Yeah maybe. Wait a second. Sarcasm, right? You got me.

Stuff alluding to me being extraordinarily lazy.

Probably. Sometimes, I am.

I certainly have a habit of working on the wrong things at the wrong time.

I never enjoyed school. These days I would probably be medicated. I found spelling particularly difficult and sometimes when reading I couldn’t make out a word. Yet I excelled at the English diploma exams. Once they put letters in math, I was sunk.

Entering high school I was going to be an auto body mechanic. The instructors were all guys that had to get out of the trade because they could barely breathe from fumes and dust. One of my best buddies and I decided that was not for us.

At career day in high school I realized I loved airplanes and asked about becoming a pilot. The guidance councillors replied, “Do you have any other ideas? You definitely can’t become a pilot. You have to go to college for that. Your marks are not good enough for college.”

I thought, “Fair enough, I guess I should do something else.”

I sort of finished grade 12, I left with English 33, being 3 credits short of a diploma and went to work at a factory for 3 years.

A few jobs I did there were hard work. I actually didn’t mind that. A few were mostly boring, 98% of the time would be spent watching the product come out of the machine. When something went wrong, like it fell over. Then you got a bit of exercise scrambling, to pick it up to make sure production was not interrupted.

Life was pretty good, I made some money, more than average for a guy just out of high school in YYC at the time. Working steady allowed me to engage in my my main hobbies, buying everything I couldn’t afford before, a nice pickup truck, the first generation Sony CD player for the truck, an RC car, motorcycles, expensive musical equipment, skis, snowboards, race car parts, eating way too much, swapping the engine in my truck, and getting drunk on the weekends. It was pretty fun. Often I could even afford to pay for my broke buddies beer and lunches too. Things were going well until, a co-worker got caught in the machine we ran. First time I ever phoned 911.

I figured I could be next. Time to get out while the getting was good. I quit and planned to grab a little UI, maybe become a rock star. Then because I didn’t have a band and the UI lady was hassling me for quitting. Under the advice of a buddy I started an apprenticeship at around half the wages I had become accustomed to.

On the way to work one day I heard a commercial for a flying school. It said, “Let your career take off with us…”

By that time I think I was taking a night class to complete English 30, which bagged me the 3 credits I was short of getting a diploma. So I called them to inquire about prerequisites and found out I didn’t even need the diploma, let alone go to college to become a pilot.

That’s information I could have used 3 and a half years earlier when I had a decent paying full time job.

Oh well, a few years after that I eventually…
Did chemistry 10, 20 and 30. Math 10 and 20.
Got started on a PPL.
Played in some crappy bands, played in some good bands.
Finished the apprenticeship.
Finished the PPL.
Flew from Chilliwack to Tofino, back to Abbotsford with another PPL.
Flew home from Abbotsford to Springbank solo.
Flew from Springbank to Washington DC and back.
(when you could land at DC national, now Ronald Reagan)

Switched flight training units and sort of trained for a CPL. Destined to fail between test anxiety, sporadic flying and not getting along with the new CFI.

Skip ahead to now. I live on the internet like the lawnmower man. And you say I should get my CPL before I started my PPL. Is your goal to get me to quit flying?

[Colonel]

I never enjoyed school

I was expelled from high school. I sincerely doubt my enjoyment was important to anyone involved.

helpful for getting (an ATP and/or Phd)

I get enormous inspiration from Dr Jill Biden. So should you. If she can get a PhD, anyone can.
(spoiler - she doesn't have an MD or a PhD, and everyone laughs)

Getting compliments

Oh dear. Best not to discuss the difference between military and civilian flight training, and
my observation after a quarter century of giving flight instruction, that students always seemed
to learn the most on lessons they enjoyed the least, and they learned the least on lessons they
enjoyed the most.

It's important to learn at some point, that ego gratification rarely adds to your knowledge and skill.

Not enough people mentioned, I should fly more often

Meta-lesson: everyone in life will give you bad advice. If someone tells you the truth, it was by accident.

You definitely can’t become a pilot

See above meta-lesson which you really need to learn at some point. I had a student, that flew with
the Ottawa Flying Club at age 30, and some young @sshole there told him he was too old to ever fly.
So, he gave up. But ten years later, at age 40, he started flying with me. We did his CPL and his class
4 instructor rating despite these bozo @ssholes from Toronto trying to stop me (career college police).
He now has his ATP and flies skiplanes and floatplanes up north. I worked him very hard, and he now
has his ATP. Spot the pattern?

What everyone needs to learn, is that you are the architect of your own life.

Sure, you got lots of bad advice (didn't we all?) but at some point, you have to take responsibility for
your choices, your actions and the consequences of them.

The harder I work, the luckier I get. I know that's not a very Canadian sentiment, but it is my experience.

Get used to feeling a little pain. Life is not all cupcakes and roses and rainbows and lollipops.

[David MacRay]

Well, I don’t take compliments well. Also I am often first to complain and very honest when a landing or manoeuvre was below my standards.

I will continue to take pleasure in a few occasions when instructors have told a guy my age who admits he does not fly often enough, I did something well after I did it the way I tried to.

They stand out because said events did not happen during training, they happened during checkouts and were evidence I had learned something before, practiced it and did it.

In fact, I will now take a moment to brag, possibly again, about a few years ago, during one of my two or three hours of dual 172 flying that year, I was doing some cross wind landings.

After we tied the plane down being the last one to return, we went inside to do paper work. Another instructor I did not know came over to me and said, “I heard your landings were really good in the crosswinds today.”

I don’t even care if you write, it was all done as a skit to stroke my ego.

But ten years later, at age 40, he started flying with me.

Why?

I might be imagining it. Obviously I have a really great imagination!

I thought for sure you have written more than once this year, about needing to get a lot of hours flight time before you are much younger than 40. The search function said it ignored all the words I tried so I didn’t find them but.. I think the age you used was close to half as old.

I was in my 20s when I started playing around. I am doing much better physically now than I was in my late thirties, but I don’t know if I can get any of those critical flying hours before I was 19 anymore.

[David MacRay]

Here’s one quote. I owe you an apology. The age for 1000 hours was 25 in that one.

Sorry.

I still can’t do it. And hopefully I can somehow go on in life whether or not I fly again.

Not sure I understand that. If you really like airplanes, you probably will have
1000 hours by the time you're 25. There are lots of years to fly after that?

This isn't just aviation. Look at any good musician or motorcycle racer - they
probably started very young. IMHO if you're going to be a good pilot, you should
be flying seriously by the time you are 10. Solo on a taildragger on 14 (in Canada).

I removed some of the quote and an excellent video of Sammy Mason landing a Cub backwards. Not sure it’s relevant to me but it was impressive.

I’m never going to be Bob Hoover but sometimes I have fun flying. Occasionally I have done it to a reasonable level of proficiency and I enjoyed that too.

[Colonel]

But ten years later, at age 40, he started flying with me.

Why?

That's a really strange question. Obviously, he wanted to do it badly, even if
he had received some really discouraging and stupendously incorrect advice
previously from an idiot that almost certainly flies for Air Canada today, and
tries to land on the taxiway at SFO.

Meta-lesson: he wanted it badly. He worked at it hard. He got it.

This is not a complicated sequence to follow.

FWIW: it was not always easy to be a student of mine. I worked them very
very hard, but they got very, very good.



On the left is a student of mine. I soloed him at 14 in a Maule, then in a Pitts,
then he got his airshow card (solo and formation) at age 18. He worked very,
very hard. Fern Villeneuve said of him, "He's miles ahead of everyone else".

I know that's not what a Good Canadian™ does. You have no idea what other
incredible non-aviation successes he enjoys, because he works harder than anyone
you know.

[David MacRay]

I don’t know who Arlo is or what “Canadians” do. I think every person is a bit unique, even if they live near each other and have similarities.

[TwinOtterFan]

I know I've missed a bunch of this thread lately, if you want to fly Dave then go for it. I'm 40, just left the military don't even have my PPL yet, but I'm going to, and my CPL and my instructor. Not a PhD though, sorry Colonel.

I've had a hundred people tell me I can't do it. But I'm going to.

[Slick Goodlin]

Hell yeah, TwotterFan! My first student was twice my age when he walked into the flight school and he just retired off a 767 as skipper so whether you can or can’t is up to you.

[TwinOtterFan]

Hell yeah, TwotterFan! My first student was twice my age when he walked into the flight school and he just retired off a 767 as skipper so whether you can or can’t is up to you.

Slick gets it, I joined the army at 29, I was older than my drill instructors, 3rd oldest in my platoon, Every single time we went for PT I held my own with the 19 year old troops, everyday. I made a point of pushing myself until I was matching if not beating them. Slicks spot on, you are the only one who can choose. And on the days you think you can't you come on here and we will remind you.

This forum is a major reason I released and went for it, lots of great support here, but you have to want it.