a PBY will carry a two thousand pound over load with no real problem.

[David MacRay]

Here you go.

Now it’s about how maximum gross takeoff weight is just a book number that is way too low.

[Liquid_Charlie]

The only method of measuring fuel I trust in a 172, is putting a stick in the tank.

Exactly and I have even had a float gauge on a J3 stick. The only saving grace is that you are staring at it all the time and the level doesn't change.

Fuel gauges in small aircraft and even some big ones, as far as I'm concerned, are not reliable or very accurate. You need to depart with a "know quantity" of fuel. That means either a full tank or a graduated dipstick.

Ah --- the discussion of granny gas and over gross departures. I will only say this, you should be familiar of how your aircraft flies up to about a 10% overload. I can see that one would not want to expose yourself to doing this while renting but for your own aircraft - fill the tanks, load up, on a day with good conditions and do it. You will be surprised, very little difference in handling.

I cut my teeth on an era when overloading was just a fact of life. There were even bragging sessions for who hauled the biggest load for the day. I had a mining engineer ask me once - "how come it take 10 beaver trips to move my camp to the bush but only 5 or 6 trips to move my camp once in the bush"

The beech 18 was the worst. With standard loads if one caught a long trip the overload was pretty significant. Pilots and fuel in those days had no weight --

Just use your head and do it safely. There is not a big flyswatter that takes you out if you test the rules and limitations a little.

[David MacRay]

I’m kind of hardcore with the numbers. I don’t want to hurt the plane but also at the time I wanted to avoid the slightest blemish on my records. Finally the flight in question was taking my grandma and dad to Manitoba. So I might have been unreasonable about it but safety was my highest priority.

I left Rapid City once on a nice warm afternoon. The ATIS mentioned density altitude, warning pilots are reminded to calculate for takeoff distance. I was glad I was picky that time. I’m sure there was more space than it seemed but I have never been that close to a fence on departure any other time.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The beech 18 was the worst. With standard loads if one caught a long trip the overload was pretty significant. Pilots and fuel in those days had no weight --

Of all the float planes I ever flew the Beech 18 was my favorite, I just loved the thing.

The two bladed B18 really gave me a hard on when it is at takeoff power.

[Liquid_Charlie]

Of all the float planes I ever flew the Beech 18 was my favorite, I just loved the thing.

The two bladed B18 really gave me a hard on when it is at takeoff power.
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I agree 100% Chuck - my favourite "light twin" as well. If it would float (and not a real requirement knowing guys launching off a boat ramp because the aircraft would sink otherwise) it would fly. I can remeber doing a drill haul and I arrived at the camp and was told that if I wanted to go for breakfast they would load my aircraft -- haha -- they claimed to know what they were doing. I came down to the dock kicked the rope off the back bollard and it went straight to the bottom -- off loaded enough for it to float and still had 3000 lbs in the back (weighed on my arrival home) and this was a 400 mile round trip so ya a little heavy but it flew great and you would never know you were about 1200 lbs over gross on a 10,000 lb aircraft.

[David MacRay]

Fair enough and maybe overloading the mighty 172 won’t be a problem.

I was reading now there’s an AD to get the spars checked on C-210s and there has been one for a few Piper products for a while now. Sounds like some planes may have been harmed by getting overloaded in the past.

I guess gently wiggle the wing on walk around?

I know it took more than 75 pounds, but at the time I decided to go with zero tolerance for over gross takeoff. I was still taking on 5 hours of fuel for 3 hour flights. I just stopped more often.

[Liquid_Charlie]

I'm not condoning overloading but at some point the decision on a little extra fuel or go to bare minimum fuel will rear it's head.

The simple question boils down to what you are more comfortable with, running out of fuel or being in that low fuel state because of unforeseen circumstances or taking off a few pounds on the plus side which will burn off - if that is the situation and you are not comfortable either way, stay home that day or re-plan your route for a tech stop.

Reducing stress levels by removing items that can become "tunnel vision" issues certainly improves the thought process and in the long run makes for a safer and more enjoyable flight. In over 50 years of flying I can only think of one incident where everything went sideways with the wx and fuel was a concern but as they ask in the arctic, what's your alternate and the real answer it ILS. -- right Chuck --

[Chuck Ellsworth]

if flying over the max gross of a given airplane is so deadly a risk, how come the regulators around the world will give an over gross weight exemption for long over water ferry flights ?

[David MacRay]

I don’t know. Do they just give over gross takeoff weight exemptions out to every plane every time?

How much overweight can you get the exemption for on the C-210? Maybe they expected that after the ferry flight, people will go back to only loading them to the maximum gross takeoff weight, and not decide, “She’ll take the extra load no problem.” Until a wing comes off?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I don't recall exactly how much overweight exemptions I used to get ferrying PBY's all over the world but it was in the thousands of pounds range.

Was never refused an exemption so I guess they figured if I could get it airborne I could keep going.