So boys after bloviating for years, I am finally learning how to fly a tail wheel airplane. A Citabria Aurora to be exact. And after over a decade of flying tricycle gear, it’s like learning to fly all over again.
Here are some early impressions:
- Taxiing is ok and I’m comfortable with it.
- Upper air work is a non-event.
- Takeoff is coming along but keeping the stick sufficiently forward makes you paranoid about prop strikes so that takes some getting used to. Rudder inputs are less of an issue than I thought they were going to be but you certainly need to use them.
- Circuits/Approaches, non-events for the most part, but keep the nose down in the turn, the Citabria has a lower-down nose attitude that you are used to in the 172.
- Roundouts – yuck. I can’t quite judge the correct height for pulling the stick back into my stomach to do a decent three-point landing. The result is a bounce or bounces. After about three hours dual it's coming along but patience is required. This is the biggest hurdle for me so far but it seems to be just a matter of developing the right muscle memory and sight pictures.
Overall though it’s a lot of fun and if you’re bored of the 172 or Cherokee try it out. Just be prepared for a lot of humbling experiences.
Middle Aged Man Flies Tailwheel, Laughter Ensues
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
good on you -- it will certainly add to your skills - do they insist on 3 pointing, you will get much more satisfaction out of "wheel" landings, better in xwind as well. ;)
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Chuck Ellsworth
[quote][font=verdana]good on you -- it will certainly add to your skills - do they insist on 3 pointing, you will get much more satisfaction out of "wheel" landings, better in xwind as well. [/font][/quote][font=verdana]
Charlie is correct.
As to your height judgement that has to be addressed before anything else.
Find a high time pilot that can fix that problem for you, unless you learn to judge height accurately you will never be a real competent pilot.[/font]
[font=verdana]I had a method of teaching height judgement that took about an hour of short circuits to get them to judge the height accurately from fifty feet to touch down.[/font]
Charlie is correct.
As to your height judgement that has to be addressed before anything else.
Find a high time pilot that can fix that problem for you, unless you learn to judge height accurately you will never be a real competent pilot.[/font]
[font=verdana]I had a method of teaching height judgement that took about an hour of short circuits to get them to judge the height accurately from fifty feet to touch down.[/font]
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JW Scud
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:44 am
[quote author=DeflectionShot link=topic=8901.msg24385#msg24385 date=1534709384]
- Roundouts – yuck. I can’t quite judge the correct height for pulling the stick back into my stomach to do a decent three-point landing. The result is a bounce or bounces. After about three hours dual it's coming along but patience is required. This is the biggest hurdle for me so far but it seems to be just a matter of developing the right muscle memory and sight pictures.
[/quote]
Here's a tip, if you want to get really nice three pointers, try not to land. I'm serioius. Attempt to flare and ideally be quite close to the ground. Now you have levelled off. Do your best to maintaintain that few inches above the ground. As the speed bleeds off, you will feel a slight sink at which point, gently pull the stick aft only slightly in order not to touch the ground. You just increased your AOA and levelled off. Meanwhile, you are looking either ahead or using peripheral vision(depending on type) to stay straight. Within a few seconds you will feel a bit more sink. Do the same thing. Keep on doing this repeatedly until the aircraft gently touches down at about the same time the stick happens to touch the aft stop. Might not works so well in a crosswind where I prefer wheelies but my best three pointer(and a Citabria is extremely easy to three point) happen when I try not to land.
Let us know how it works. It starts with a proper flare initiation(at idle power) but then there is the rest of the flare.
As for directional control, the way I look at it is, keep your feet moving. How you ask? Well, the way I look at it is you can either be reacting to the aircraft(which is inevitable sometimes) or the aircraft can be reacting to you. So keep the small inputs going and make the aircraft react to you instead of you reacting to the aircraft. As you slow down, you might find yourself having to react more as your control effectiveness decreases and proper input is essential when reacting. At some point, it becomes instinctive.
- Roundouts – yuck. I can’t quite judge the correct height for pulling the stick back into my stomach to do a decent three-point landing. The result is a bounce or bounces. After about three hours dual it's coming along but patience is required. This is the biggest hurdle for me so far but it seems to be just a matter of developing the right muscle memory and sight pictures.
[/quote]
Here's a tip, if you want to get really nice three pointers, try not to land. I'm serioius. Attempt to flare and ideally be quite close to the ground. Now you have levelled off. Do your best to maintaintain that few inches above the ground. As the speed bleeds off, you will feel a slight sink at which point, gently pull the stick aft only slightly in order not to touch the ground. You just increased your AOA and levelled off. Meanwhile, you are looking either ahead or using peripheral vision(depending on type) to stay straight. Within a few seconds you will feel a bit more sink. Do the same thing. Keep on doing this repeatedly until the aircraft gently touches down at about the same time the stick happens to touch the aft stop. Might not works so well in a crosswind where I prefer wheelies but my best three pointer(and a Citabria is extremely easy to three point) happen when I try not to land.
Let us know how it works. It starts with a proper flare initiation(at idle power) but then there is the rest of the flare.
As for directional control, the way I look at it is, keep your feet moving. How you ask? Well, the way I look at it is you can either be reacting to the aircraft(which is inevitable sometimes) or the aircraft can be reacting to you. So keep the small inputs going and make the aircraft react to you instead of you reacting to the aircraft. As you slow down, you might find yourself having to react more as your control effectiveness decreases and proper input is essential when reacting. At some point, it becomes instinctive.
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]try not to land[/quote]
Excellent advice for any light aircraft, be it nosewheel
or tailwheel. Put it at six inches in the landing attitude
with the power off, and as it slows down, try to stop it
from landing with a touch of back stick.
re: the bounce ....
When I get a skip or hop after landing, I know that I
approached too fast. B.D. Maule - he liked me, for some
strange reason - used to recommend the "double whomp"
landing where the tailwheel touches first, and the reduction
in the AOA as the mains come down means that you are
done flying. No skips, no bounce, and a nice short rollout
because you approached slower, with a higher alpha.
The POH for the Pitts S-2B also recommends tailwheel
first landings. Get the speed over the numbers under
control, and your three point landings will improve.
And do remember that the metric of a good tailwheel
landing is NOT a greaser - it is your directional control.
Unless you drop it in from 20 feet, you're not going to
hurt a taildragger if you keep it straight.
The less yaw and s-turning during the landing rollout,
the better it is, IMHO.
Keep in mind that people can only tell you what works
for them. They cannot tell you what is going to work
for you, and everyone is different.
All I know for sure, is that after the first 10,000 or so,
my landings got easier.
[youtube][/youtube]
Note that at 0:22 you can see my tailwheel touch just
before the mains.
Excellent advice for any light aircraft, be it nosewheel
or tailwheel. Put it at six inches in the landing attitude
with the power off, and as it slows down, try to stop it
from landing with a touch of back stick.
re: the bounce ....
When I get a skip or hop after landing, I know that I
approached too fast. B.D. Maule - he liked me, for some
strange reason - used to recommend the "double whomp"
landing where the tailwheel touches first, and the reduction
in the AOA as the mains come down means that you are
done flying. No skips, no bounce, and a nice short rollout
because you approached slower, with a higher alpha.
The POH for the Pitts S-2B also recommends tailwheel
first landings. Get the speed over the numbers under
control, and your three point landings will improve.
And do remember that the metric of a good tailwheel
landing is NOT a greaser - it is your directional control.
Unless you drop it in from 20 feet, you're not going to
hurt a taildragger if you keep it straight.
The less yaw and s-turning during the landing rollout,
the better it is, IMHO.
Keep in mind that people can only tell you what works
for them. They cannot tell you what is going to work
for you, and everyone is different.
All I know for sure, is that after the first 10,000 or so,
my landings got easier.
[youtube][/youtube]
Note that at 0:22 you can see my tailwheel touch just
before the mains.
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
A few tailwheel tips, worth what you paid for for them:
1) any crosswind, stick all the way over into the wind progressively as you slow down,
to take advantage of adverse yaw to avoid weathervaning into the wind as your rudder
loses effectiveness
2) wheel land if you want to. Or not. But if you decide to, you will struggle with bounces
launching you back into the sky UNTIL you figure out the secret: Even if there is no x-wind,
at the last moment drop a wing, apply opposite rudder and touch down on one main. If you
don't get a greaser, the other main comes down, and some stick forward, to stick the mains on.
3) landing on grass is an enormous treat. Walk the surface first to make sure it is not too
soft, and there is nothing nasty lurking under the long grass. Avoid dark green areas as
they are soft - ask Mike Potter. On final, slow the aircraft down in 5 mph increments until
the aircraft sags slightly and you have to add power to maintain your new decreased airspeed.
Congratulations, you are now slightly on the back side of the power curve and at the perfect
approach speed! If you encounter ANY wind shear, full throttle and LOWER THE NOSE (where
have you heard that before) to get your airspeed back. Touch down with the tail first, and
with any headwind, you can probably stop inside 500 feet. With practice, you can learn to
roll the tires through the tops of the trees - the tops bend, the bottoms not so much - and
it is a badge of honor to land with leaves in your tailwheel ;D
Remember, the above is worth precisely what you paid me for it, and is coming from a
[b]BAD PERSON[/b] who isn't eligible to renew his instructor ratings, and is very careful
to avoid Canada. Still patiently waiting for the seized laptop and phone from TC.
1) any crosswind, stick all the way over into the wind progressively as you slow down,
to take advantage of adverse yaw to avoid weathervaning into the wind as your rudder
loses effectiveness
2) wheel land if you want to. Or not. But if you decide to, you will struggle with bounces
launching you back into the sky UNTIL you figure out the secret: Even if there is no x-wind,
at the last moment drop a wing, apply opposite rudder and touch down on one main. If you
don't get a greaser, the other main comes down, and some stick forward, to stick the mains on.
3) landing on grass is an enormous treat. Walk the surface first to make sure it is not too
soft, and there is nothing nasty lurking under the long grass. Avoid dark green areas as
they are soft - ask Mike Potter. On final, slow the aircraft down in 5 mph increments until
the aircraft sags slightly and you have to add power to maintain your new decreased airspeed.
Congratulations, you are now slightly on the back side of the power curve and at the perfect
approach speed! If you encounter ANY wind shear, full throttle and LOWER THE NOSE (where
have you heard that before) to get your airspeed back. Touch down with the tail first, and
with any headwind, you can probably stop inside 500 feet. With practice, you can learn to
roll the tires through the tops of the trees - the tops bend, the bottoms not so much - and
it is a badge of honor to land with leaves in your tailwheel ;D
Remember, the above is worth precisely what you paid me for it, and is coming from a
[b]BAD PERSON[/b] who isn't eligible to renew his instructor ratings, and is very careful
to avoid Canada. Still patiently waiting for the seized laptop and phone from TC.
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
How time marches on. I'm of an era where conventional gear ruled when I learned to fly. The term says it all,conventional gear. Everyone learned to fly with a tail wheel. It was not a big thing. It is a little amusing the dogma that has arisen now that tail wheeled aircraft and for all intents and purposes no longer around and only exist is a very small circle. I guess it's almost like the radio,the current generation of pilot won't believe that you can fly without one and the GPS -- Oh my - >:D
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John Swallow
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm
"I guess it's almost like the radio, the current generation of pilot won't believe that you can fly without one and the GPS -- Oh my - "
I acknowledge that you CAN flog around without a radio or a GPS, but doing so is a little like masturbating in a whore house: you can do it but what's the point?
Bet you that there's not many here who can execute a "Lost Orientation" or an "Aural Null Timing, Distance, Homing, and Letdown"...
Doesn't mean that you're any less of a pilot; just means that there's not much call for that anymore.
My first aircraft had a Narco VTR 2A Omnigator and an ADF with which I criss-crossed Canada three times. With map.
Great fun in good weather. Not so much trying to push through a warm front at 500 feet...
Not only does my present airplane have a radio, it has two (2) GPS! And a Dynon Skyview with synthetic vision. And PCAS. And for flight planning and weather and reroutes, an Ipad with Foreflight.
I have OPTIONS. If you flog around with no aids whatsoever, you do not have options...
Do I long for the Good Old Days?
Not so much.
The same old argument went on when the ADF replaced the radio range: "Goddamn kids nowadays are friggin' sissies! What are they going to do when the magic fails and they have to shoot a range approach or (gasp) perform an aural null letdown?"
Admittedly, the kids today do not have the map reading skills of we olde phartes, but given the MTBF rates of today’s avionics and the low cost of redundancy, is it really a requirement?
Even if I have complete aircraft electrical failure, my Garmin 496 will revert to battery power and give me four hours of navigation information which is one hour more than my bladder hold time. And the two on-board hand-held transceivers will allow me to communicate should I wish to do so.
Bin there; done that. Ain’t goin’ back…
I acknowledge that you CAN flog around without a radio or a GPS, but doing so is a little like masturbating in a whore house: you can do it but what's the point?
Bet you that there's not many here who can execute a "Lost Orientation" or an "Aural Null Timing, Distance, Homing, and Letdown"...
Doesn't mean that you're any less of a pilot; just means that there's not much call for that anymore.
My first aircraft had a Narco VTR 2A Omnigator and an ADF with which I criss-crossed Canada three times. With map.
Great fun in good weather. Not so much trying to push through a warm front at 500 feet...
Not only does my present airplane have a radio, it has two (2) GPS! And a Dynon Skyview with synthetic vision. And PCAS. And for flight planning and weather and reroutes, an Ipad with Foreflight.
I have OPTIONS. If you flog around with no aids whatsoever, you do not have options...
Do I long for the Good Old Days?
Not so much.
The same old argument went on when the ADF replaced the radio range: "Goddamn kids nowadays are friggin' sissies! What are they going to do when the magic fails and they have to shoot a range approach or (gasp) perform an aural null letdown?"
Admittedly, the kids today do not have the map reading skills of we olde phartes, but given the MTBF rates of today’s avionics and the low cost of redundancy, is it really a requirement?
Even if I have complete aircraft electrical failure, my Garmin 496 will revert to battery power and give me four hours of navigation information which is one hour more than my bladder hold time. And the two on-board hand-held transceivers will allow me to communicate should I wish to do so.
Bin there; done that. Ain’t goin’ back…
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