Lets have a serious discussion on learning to fly.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Do you think the improvement in airplane reliability, especially the engines had something to do with the reduction in accidents?

[DeflectionShot]

[quote]Do you think the improvement in airplane reliability, especially the engines had something to do with the reduction in accidents?[/quote]

I don't know Chuck. You probably know a hell of a lot more about aero engine reliability in the 1950s than I ever will  ;D .

Here's my theory: I actually think it has more to do with risk. The 1950s were a less regulated era than today and the WW2 generation who were doing most of the flying they just accepted the risks. If you died flying...well tough shit. That's life. You wanna fly IFR in the 1950s? Sure but you're relying on minimal instruments and nav aids and you fly into a mountain, too bad so sad. The media, the hyper nanny state and lawyers weren't around to make a big deal about it.

As well, there probably wasn't a lot of easily accessible information about light aircraft operations in those days and you were just supposed to pick it up by osmosis. When you think about it, it's seems incredible that Liquid Charlie could fly around the GTA in 1965 in an 85HP Cub (probably with no radio and transponder) and do almost whatever the he wanted with minimal oversight by the state.

Hell I remember flying into Toronto Airport from London, Ont. (Now Pearson) in a Cherokee in 1976 as a kid and it wasn't a big deal. Try doing that today.

I think the main reason why PPL completion times have gone up is just the sheer regulatory and institutional complexity of GA. Compare Sandy MacDonald's From the Ground Up in the early 1970s to today and you will get my drift.

[Rookie Pilot]

[quote author=DeflectionShot link=topic=8789.msg24178#msg24178 date=1532826562]


[font=Verdana]The media, the hyper nanny state and lawyers weren't around to make a big deal about it.[/font]

[/quote]


Can you imagine this article in the 1950's?  What total crap.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-anxi ... -1.4762487

[John Swallow]

What  is the experience level of the instructors teaching ab initio military pilots?”


Can’t compare military instructors to civilian instructors.


The military has the luxury of only having to take the “brightest and best”.  Then, their training is concentrated and continuous.   

There are (or at least were) pipe-line instructors – pilots who had just got their wings and were sent back to be instructors.

All take a concentrated course (in my time, upwards of eight weeks) with half the course spent on pilot proficiency and the last half of instructional proficiency. 

So, while the pipe-line instructor may not have had the total hours of second and third tour guys selected for instructional duties, he/she was fully qualified to do so by the end of their training.

I was a second tour guy and I came back with a little over 1400 hours in my logbook.  I was on course with individuals who had less than 300, but who turned out to be excellent instructors.  This was on the T-33. 

[Nark1]

Our initial (on the Jet Ranger/TH67) instructors were all civilian contractors.  Most had thousands of hours teaching.


When I flew the Hawk for the first time, my IP had maybe 800+ hours.


It’s not the amount of expirience the IPs have but more so the environment. Students WANT to be there and any sort of entitlement is beaten out of you before day 1 on the flight line. Failing a test, let alone not finishing flight school is a huge shame to someone.
With that stated, the problem (as I see it) is the lack of motivation or desire from the students. 


I keep my certificates current, but I’m fortunate not to have to rely on teaching for an income. That too makes a huge difference. 

[David MacRay]

[quote author=Liquid Charlie link=topic=8789.msg24169#msg24169 date=1532781198]

If I see another resume from a low time pilot saying they have garmin 1000 time I think "postal" is the phrase, regardless those CV's go directly to the bin --  >:D
[/quote]

You should create a really long PFO letter about noticing they were only qualified to fly simple aircraft equipped with little televisions and how you would have hired them if they had more analog experience.

[Eric Janson]

Meanwhile in Asia....

[url=http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbb586b&opt=0]http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbb586b&opt=0[/url]
[quote]..but temporarily went off the runway[/quote]

Guess they still haven't learnt what the rudder is for and how to use it.  This happens every few months. If it's not this it's an overrun.

[David MacRay]

Kind of unfair to blame those pilots. If they would make ten thousand foot paved circles this wouldn't happen. Make them 20,000 feet and it would reduce the over runs too.

[mcrit]

[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=8789.msg24164#msg24164 date=1532739815]
Trey....




...The real problem is it is ass backwards.


Flight instruction should be done by the most experienced pilots in aviation, not by the most inexperienced.
[/quote]

Bang on.  The problem with flight instruction today is that all of the experience has been diluted out of the instructor cadre.  Just for clarity, this is not a swipe at the current batch of instructors; they are all bright and capable pilots.  They are all capable of learning to fly an airplane as well as anyone of us old guys.  Their only problem is that there was no one around to teach them properly.  Low pay and typical FTU BS prevent experienced pilots from coming back.  I've taught people the new PPL syllabus in close to minimum hours and none of them have been violated or died in an aircraft. 

[Chris]

Hard to nail it down to one thing.

Student failings:

-Pace of training: I got my license as a Cadet. Flying almost every day for 6 weeks and signed off at 45 hours. As far as I know that’s still the case. If you’re only coming to the airport once a week for an hour  you’re never going to build skills. Just continuously repeat that first lesson.

-Motivation: See above. Set the time aside and commit. If all the time you can afford is every second Thursday afternoon between 6 and 9 (which means winter months are out), maybe this flying thing isn’t for you. When are you going to be able to enjoy that license?

-Feelings: I’m 32. Does that make me a millennial? I’m never sure. I like knowing what I did wrong, where I can improve. The compliment sandwich is great but I’m a gluten-free review kind of person. Skip the fluffy bread and get to the important ingredients. The fact that some people need a buffer of warm fuzzy things before and after a criticism frustrates me a little. Getting things wrong in an airplane isn’t like getting them wrong on a written test. There may not be a rewrite if you screw up at the wrong time. Worry less about hurt feelings and more about improving your performance.

Instructors: Same as has been said. The current group of young instructors are several generations in to the newbie-teaching-newbie system which is breeding out much of the learned experience of the older generation.