So we've all seen the pilot movement and the small operators are all trash or something and bonds are the devil, but I'm a little surprised to see nobody is taking advantage of that. Right now the big push at most if not all 703/704 shops is for pilot retention: throw more cash at them, more days off, bonuses, etc. In spite of this, the pilots still pour out the door to the regionals, nowadays often for half of what they're making and a minimum number of days off. I get it, it's part of a bigger career arc which includes moving back into your parents' basement.
I'm going to play the bad guy for a minute here.
The way I see it these attempts at retention have more or less failed in an expensive way. Since the general employee attitude is that the company can get f*cked, why haven't companies taken the same stance? I figure a place with easy enough airplanes (Caravans maybe?) could bring on 200 hour wonders without a bond and pay them nearly nothing, knowing that their pilots will be stuck there for the next 800 hours or so. Put the guys half ramp/half flying and you might even get two years out of them [i]and[/i] I bet they'd be lined up around the block to get a job with you.
So what gives? How are we not seeing abuse like this?
I'm Frankly a Little Surprised
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digits
[quote author=Slick Goodlin link=topic=7897.msg21868#msg21868 date=1517846557]
So we've all seen the pilot movement and the small operators are all trash or something and bonds are the devil, but I'm a little surprised to see nobody is taking advantage of that. Right now the big push at most if not all 703/704 shops is for pilot retention: throw more cash at them, more days off, bonuses, etc. In spite of this, the pilots still pour out the door to the regionals, nowadays often for half of what they're making and a minimum number of days off. I get it, it's part of a bigger career arc which includes moving back into your parents' basement.
I'm going to play the bad guy for a minute here.
The way I see it these attempts at retention have more or less failed in an expensive way. Since the general employee attitude is that the company can get f*cked, why haven't companies taken the same stance? I figure a place with easy enough airplanes (Caravans maybe?) could bring on 200 hour wonders without a bond and pay them nearly nothing, knowing that their pilots will be stuck there for the next 800 hours or so. Put the guys half ramp/half flying and you might even get two years out of them [i]and[/i] I bet they'd be lined up around the block to get a job with you.
So what gives? How are we not seeing abuse like this?
[/quote]
Because even "scumbag" operators acknowledge more hours = more experience. It's hard to justify to anyone, even yourself, to put a 200 hour pilot in your million dollar airplane to save 10k annually. One bad landing and you might be out of 20k of revenue if the plane is out of service for a week. Especially if you know that even the 200 hour pilot will be moving on quite quickly if he has the chance.
So we've all seen the pilot movement and the small operators are all trash or something and bonds are the devil, but I'm a little surprised to see nobody is taking advantage of that. Right now the big push at most if not all 703/704 shops is for pilot retention: throw more cash at them, more days off, bonuses, etc. In spite of this, the pilots still pour out the door to the regionals, nowadays often for half of what they're making and a minimum number of days off. I get it, it's part of a bigger career arc which includes moving back into your parents' basement.
I'm going to play the bad guy for a minute here.
The way I see it these attempts at retention have more or less failed in an expensive way. Since the general employee attitude is that the company can get f*cked, why haven't companies taken the same stance? I figure a place with easy enough airplanes (Caravans maybe?) could bring on 200 hour wonders without a bond and pay them nearly nothing, knowing that their pilots will be stuck there for the next 800 hours or so. Put the guys half ramp/half flying and you might even get two years out of them [i]and[/i] I bet they'd be lined up around the block to get a job with you.
So what gives? How are we not seeing abuse like this?
[/quote]
Because even "scumbag" operators acknowledge more hours = more experience. It's hard to justify to anyone, even yourself, to put a 200 hour pilot in your million dollar airplane to save 10k annually. One bad landing and you might be out of 20k of revenue if the plane is out of service for a week. Especially if you know that even the 200 hour pilot will be moving on quite quickly if he has the chance.
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Trey Kule
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:19 am
I think it maybe is being done,
My nephew looked into a company looking for seasonal pilots, and managed to speak to a few of their previous employees
In 2018
Spend two, or three weeks in groundschool. Not only not being paid, but paying partially your meals.
Wages based on a long workweek. No overtime. No stat holiday pay. Promise of a big bonus! Which apparently just about covers the time spent in groundschool
Company expects pilots to use their own vehicles to drive between bases
for gas. No meals.
All for 100 or so hours of multi time.
Senior management treats pilots like crap. They seem to prefer crisis management to proactive pre resolutions.
(This was a subjective observation from the two or threeformer pilots he spoke with)
According to him, when the company HR spoke with him, much of this was not mentioned...
My nephew’s words were “if nothing else comes up.†Which fortunately, for him it did this week.
And...thereis another company advertising for instructors...pay for a class 3 is $700 a month....and hourly after 35 hours every two weeks.. if you fly 100 hours of billBle time in a month, you can make , what? About $1400.....
And if the compay flies you just 70hours a month? $10 per billable hour...
If there is a pilot shortage no one has told these companies. And , I expect enough of the desparate to fill the positions. I do not expect either will change until they are forced to..
My nephew looked into a company looking for seasonal pilots, and managed to speak to a few of their previous employees
In 2018
Spend two, or three weeks in groundschool. Not only not being paid, but paying partially your meals.
Wages based on a long workweek. No overtime. No stat holiday pay. Promise of a big bonus! Which apparently just about covers the time spent in groundschool
Company expects pilots to use their own vehicles to drive between bases
for gas. No meals.
All for 100 or so hours of multi time.
Senior management treats pilots like crap. They seem to prefer crisis management to proactive pre resolutions.
(This was a subjective observation from the two or threeformer pilots he spoke with)
According to him, when the company HR spoke with him, much of this was not mentioned...
My nephew’s words were “if nothing else comes up.†Which fortunately, for him it did this week.
And...thereis another company advertising for instructors...pay for a class 3 is $700 a month....and hourly after 35 hours every two weeks.. if you fly 100 hours of billBle time in a month, you can make , what? About $1400.....
And if the compay flies you just 70hours a month? $10 per billable hour...
If there is a pilot shortage no one has told these companies. And , I expect enough of the desparate to fill the positions. I do not expect either will change until they are forced to..
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
The grass is greener outside the fence right?
That's why I won't get a divorce and replace the old lady, I know in a couple of years it will just be the same thing.
Young guys think they're going to get on with Pan Am and become millionaire pilots.
That's why I won't get a divorce and replace the old lady, I know in a couple of years it will just be the same thing.
Young guys think they're going to get on with Pan Am and become millionaire pilots.
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
It's not always just about the money.
[img width=500 height=280]http://images.contentful.com/7h71s48744 ... u-can.jpeg[/img]
[img width=500 height=280]http://images.contentful.com/7h71s48744 ... u-can.jpeg[/img]
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JW Scud
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:44 am
[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=7897.msg21878#msg21878 date=1517872539]
It's not always just about the money.
[img width=500 height=280]http://images.contentful.com/7h71s48744 ... u-can.jpeg[/img]
[/quote]
Things have changed since those days. I specifically take note of the appearance of cabin crew. You won't find any pics like that on the international flights where pilots are getting the big bucks.
It's not always just about the money.
[img width=500 height=280]http://images.contentful.com/7h71s48744 ... u-can.jpeg[/img]
[/quote]
Things have changed since those days. I specifically take note of the appearance of cabin crew. You won't find any pics like that on the international flights where pilots are getting the big bucks.
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ScudRunner-d95
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm
No that was Chucks last flight on the PBY
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Chuck Ellsworth
I did them all blindfolded just to see if I could identify each one from memory.
I let the Colonel watch.
I let the Colonel watch.
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