Two Hands on the controls

[Liquid Charlie]

Here are my views on 2 hands on the controls -- first -- depends on the aircraft and of course personal style.


Personally there are aircraft I have flown that 2 hands on the controls for landing was the best for me. DC3, CV-44, CV 64 and CV 58, Herc but only in the flair, always hand on throttles, power levers and thrust levers for approach. All were relatively heavy on the controls (convair by far the heaviest) but also for wheel travel in crosswinds - a yoke is not as good as a stick by far since there are always 2 distinct movements.


I always take off with 2 hands on the yoke, standard at V1 with a heavy jet but on gravel I used 2 hand on the wheel right from the start because the steering only did damage to the aircraft. I never had an issue with a reject, even in training with a failed engine. The hand truly is quicker than the eye.


The argument of time to initiate a go around is a myth. I'm also the type that once the power is reduced for the landing I would likely rather take my lumps on the ground than go around but the time it takes to reach up and jam the levers is insignificant.


Aircraft that absolutely not, one handers -- any Boeing Jet and likely any jet with LEDs and spoilers or any other responsive aircraft. It goes right back to you as the driver and figuring things out -- ars of the pants stuff, admittedly TC and all the flight schools are trying to remove that. There still a few that are a little "off centre" but that is not a bad thing.

[Rookie Pilot]

[quote author=Shiny link=topic=7574.msg20969#msg20969 date=1512412162]


The part I dislike about your assumption is that you hint at the possibility of a greater skilled or knowledgeable pilot being able to complete such a flight when I have doubts given the situation that even when they took off, they probably knew the odds of successful completion. In all reality, that leg of the flight shouldn't have left the ground, and they probably knew they were taking a chance at that point. Your error, is believing that a short range decision would have saved them, but I would say that still meant they made a chain of poor decisions up to that point whee the information available probably screamed at them the possibility of death lurking on this flight.

I've seen pilots do this all the time. I know of a lot of dead guys and some who came close who just shouldn't have left the ground. They fly into shit they know is bad, or beyond theirs or the aircraft's capabilities.

A small pint I'll add to it, if we want to talk about the experience of the instructor, I do find that few instructors really realize the challenge that flying instruments from the right seat may present to them. I made that mistake once, when the student becomes a basket case and suddenly you're left flying for a length of time to get out of the soup. The problem is flying while having your head turned to the left to see the instruments. At the very least its somewhat fatiguing very quickly, at worst its a good way to give yourself some vertigo. Most people don't find this out since as an instructor they only may fly the instruments on that side for a very short amount of time in any given flight, you make the student fly most of the time. As an additional factor, he (the pilot in question) may have had this to contend with.

[/quote]

You assume an awful lot,  which is annoying,  both about me and perhaps about the PPL community. 

In the thread I linked,  I'm quite positive I commented forcefully how stupid it was for that flight to even have departed,  let alone proceeded into such conditions,  especially as basically equipped as it was,  and especially at night.  Anyone who reads  my posts knows I have a thing against SE IMC at night,  let alone with convective weather.  I wouldn't have left the ground on that last leg,  end of story.   

I've diverted myself,  with my family,  more than once due to shit weather,  even in a decently equipped aircraft for it,  simply because the risk wasn't worth it.    You should consider you are not the only one with this great perspective on safety.  PPL's/ CPL's  can actually learn to  assess  risk quite well,  an additional  piece of paper means little.

As for right seat hand flying in IMC,  I've done a little of that,  too.  I've practiced right seat flying,  which is useful if one has to take over.  It isn't that bad,  IMO,  for a reasonable period of time.    Option is always there  to turn around and fly into VFR conditions. 

[John Swallow]

"I think the argument is that a 10,000TT PPL probably has more experience than a 250TT instructor..."

C'mon; you could also make the argument that a 10000 hour instructor has more experience than a 250 PP.  And it would be equally as foolish.  You can't quantify your statement after the fact.

Of course (all things being equal) a 250 hour PP with no additions to his licence is not going to be as experienced as a brand new instructor.  In licences alone, the instructor is one-up on the PP. 


If you're going to suppose endorsements and ratings to the PPL, you have to suppose the same for the instructor. 


Assuming equal hours, the argument that an instructor is not as experienced as a PPL holder is fallacious...


Apropos of nothing:  I just checked my log book and noted that I garnered my Class II instructor rating with less than 60 hours of ab initio instructing...

[Rookie Pilot]

[quote author=Shiny link=topic=7574.msg20973#msg20973 date=1512417446]

If you feel that you are above average as a PPL, then feel free to exempt yourself from what I have to say about PPLs.
Actually PPL isn't correct since I should just lump into it recreational flyers, they could hold ATPLs for all it mattered, what does matter is the type and frequency of flying they do. 
After all, do you dispute the fact that most recreational flyers fly less than 30 hours a year? Do you think that an excellent level of pilot skill is gained by such a level of flying?
[/quote]

In order; 
1) I might  be slightly  "above average"  in risk management,  because that's what I do and the way I'm wired.  Maybe not much else in flying.  I have average skill,  no better.  I do think risk management is greatly underemphasized in aviation learning;  it's what keeps us out of trouble. 
2)  Exactly my point,  actual flying type  is what matters;
3) (Sigh)  Yes,  you're correct.  I have met and flown with several though who strike me as quite professional and methodical about their flying,  and others who knew and flew within their comfortable limits,  being fair weather VFR fliers.  Both types were mature and prudent IMO.  Perhaps my basis is very very small,  I admit that. 

[Rookie Pilot]

Shiny;

I agree with your comments.  Sorry for being a hard ass.  You're correct,  the learning can never be all on the instructors shoulder's;  I've never expected mine to be.

But I'm independent to the extreme,  I almost told ATC to FO,  on the air,  when they wanted to vector me into a CB to get back on course and got too pushy.  Not many private fliers will.  They don't "question"  enough. 

  I do actually get upset when people die in airplanes,  especially 20 somethings.  Bent metal is one thing.  Dying is quite a different level of tragedy. 

[David MacRay]

I have bought lots of instructor time. Some from shiny and some from guys he hired. I am happy with almost all of it.

The very few instructors I'd like a refund from were during a long incomplete CPL course last century. One was probably fine we just didn't agree.

I have only diverted once and I suspect better PPLs might have carried on. I chose to park for a few days in a town I had not planned to visit.

May I visit? I'll bring coffee.