I have a question for J W Scud.
When comparing engineers to pilots what would you say are the percentages of accidents caused by human error made by engineers compared to human error accidents made by pilots?
Actually trying to compare the two groups is difficult considering the education and training requirements to be an engineer compared to being a pilot.
Because you can be a pilot as long as you went to school long enough to read and write and understand basic math.
Yeh, there is just no comparison.
But we could compare pilots to truck drivers, that is a better discussion.
Industry Insanity
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JW Scud
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:44 am
You are right as usual Cat Driver. Pilots are a dime a dozen. Just ask our well known poster on this thread. Four bars mean nothing. But engineers are genius's. Just ask them and they will tell you.
I like the genius engineer who designed the DC-10 baggage door. 346 killed near Paris in 1974 due to the faulty design of another genius, university educated wonder. Probably cheated from the wrong notes of a friend.
Ahhh...the engineers.
I like the genius engineer who designed the DC-10 baggage door. 346 killed near Paris in 1974 due to the faulty design of another genius, university educated wonder. Probably cheated from the wrong notes of a friend.
Ahhh...the engineers.
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Chuck Ellsworth
You are not answering my question J W.
So I will give you my opinion.
Pilots are far more prone to accidents than engineers for the simple reason the entry qualifications to become a pilot are just above a truck driver, whereas the entrance qualifications to become an engineer are years of schooling.
So I will give you my opinion.
Pilots are far more prone to accidents than engineers for the simple reason the entry qualifications to become a pilot are just above a truck driver, whereas the entrance qualifications to become an engineer are years of schooling.
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Chuck Ellsworth
[quote]
Not sure anyone cares but my SAC was
much, much more challenging than my
ATPL.[/quote]
Yup, I had the same experience, my Airdisplay Authority for Europe was much, much more challenging than my ATPL which did not even require a flight test.
Hell the ATPL is almost like getting the document in a Cracker Jacks box as a free prize.
I will admit that wearing four gold bars really impresses the bureaucrats in customs and immigration in Africa though...the bars and a few American dollars work wonders in a lot of places.
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Chuck Ellsworth
Well J W at least an engineer has to go to school for a lot longer than a pilot.
For sure one can become a successful pilot with only eight years of formal schooling.
That is not even remotely possible for an engineer.
I assume you are a pilot if something quits working on your airplane can you fix it?
For sure one can become a successful pilot with only eight years of formal schooling.
That is not even remotely possible for an engineer.
I assume you are a pilot if something quits working on your airplane can you fix it?
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Trey Kule
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:19 am
I think its so cute you boys have pet names for one another.
In the 50s and sixties pilots learned how to fly very well, or died trying, while getting experience.
So well, in fact,that by the late 80s the major cause accidents were not a result of poor flying, but bad judgement and human error.
Regulators did not recognize that we need both. Or that common sense cannot be taught.
The result is today we have a training emphasis on motivation, human factors,, but have gotten away from basic flight skills.
With the shortage of experience, the airlines convinced TC to lower the ATPL standards and create the MCPL ( a European ICAO thing), and that they could replace experience with training,
It takes a few years for this to work through the system, but I believe it will. And it will not end well.
That 22 yr old eager beaver is going to be seat warming for over 4 decades.
And with an upsurge in accidents attributed to pilots failure to fly correctly, we will see an ever increasing reliance on technology.
In the meantime we can also expect upset recovery courses, more sops, checklists, and less reliance on human decision making. "Page 37 QRH red light on Captain,,,,shall I read what to do?"
I miss flying, but at the same time, I am glad to be out of it as wages go down, work days a month increase, and
Professional pilots who really do not know each other resort to name calling...
In the 50s and sixties pilots learned how to fly very well, or died trying, while getting experience.
So well, in fact,that by the late 80s the major cause accidents were not a result of poor flying, but bad judgement and human error.
Regulators did not recognize that we need both. Or that common sense cannot be taught.
The result is today we have a training emphasis on motivation, human factors,, but have gotten away from basic flight skills.
With the shortage of experience, the airlines convinced TC to lower the ATPL standards and create the MCPL ( a European ICAO thing), and that they could replace experience with training,
It takes a few years for this to work through the system, but I believe it will. And it will not end well.
That 22 yr old eager beaver is going to be seat warming for over 4 decades.
And with an upsurge in accidents attributed to pilots failure to fly correctly, we will see an ever increasing reliance on technology.
In the meantime we can also expect upset recovery courses, more sops, checklists, and less reliance on human decision making. "Page 37 QRH red light on Captain,,,,shall I read what to do?"
I miss flying, but at the same time, I am glad to be out of it as wages go down, work days a month increase, and
Professional pilots who really do not know each other resort to name calling...
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Trey Kule
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:19 am
[font=Verdana]Not sure anyone cares but my SAC was[/font][font=Verdana]much, much more challenging than myATPL.
Well, I for one do not care at all.
Now an engineering degree from Queens. That is something. Why with that and only $3.00. You can ride any bus in Toronto.
You are not the only one who has an engineering degree, a PEng designation, even a masters degree.
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now the manifestation of an inferiority complex by continual self promotion, and putting whole groups of other down continually. Yep , you might be exclusive here.[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]....i like the pet names. Shows real class.. But lets not be formal. You can call me Sir.[/font]
[/font]
Well, I for one do not care at all.
Now an engineering degree from Queens. That is something. Why with that and only $3.00. You can ride any bus in Toronto.
You are not the only one who has an engineering degree, a PEng designation, even a masters degree.
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now the manifestation of an inferiority complex by continual self promotion, and putting whole groups of other down continually. Yep , you might be exclusive here.[/font]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]....i like the pet names. Shows real class.. But lets not be formal. You can call me Sir.[/font]
[/font]
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
I strongly encourage people to collect their own data.
To that end, I suggest people do a good engineering
undergrad - say Engineering Physics - at a top
school.
Then, get your ATPL.
Then, get your SAC.
Then come back here and we can then have an
intelligent conversation about the difficulty and
merits and the quality of the practitioners thereof.
Until then, your opinion is worthless.
To that end, I suggest people do a good engineering
undergrad - say Engineering Physics - at a top
school.
Then, get your ATPL.
Then, get your SAC.
Then come back here and we can then have an
intelligent conversation about the difficulty and
merits and the quality of the practitioners thereof.
Until then, your opinion is worthless.