[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=6186.msg16299#msg16299 date=1493834439]
Where I found drift lines most useful was on trans oceanic flights at low level when flying in VFR conditions and I could see the water.
[/quote]
I snorted out loud.
People at work are looking at me funny.
Ground School Refreshers or How I once took a Course and Forgot Most of It......
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Chuck Ellsworth
Chris, many years ago I decided to start a flight school so I could pass on some of the knowledge I had acquired over my flying career.
It was the only true mistake I made in my aviation career because after investing several years and hundreds of thousands of dollars of my hard earned money I finally had to get rid of the school because dealing with the knuckle dragging morons in the Transport Canada flight training department was impossible.
By the way I operated both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft.
It was the only true mistake I made in my aviation career because after investing several years and hundreds of thousands of dollars of my hard earned money I finally had to get rid of the school because dealing with the knuckle dragging morons in the Transport Canada flight training department was impossible.
By the way I operated both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft.
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Chris
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:05 pm
Chuck,
It might not count for much at this point in life with all the trouble you’ve gone through, but I for one would like to say thanks for the knowledge and experience you’re willing to share (the same thanks goes out to everyone here who’s taken the time to pass on what they’ve learned – Scud, Colonel, LC, David… lots more names I’m missing). I feel like I’m a rarity in the aviation world these days – a young-ish person who flies simply because flying is awesome, and just wants to be a better pilot. I have no desire to be a professional pilot – too much BS. I just want to be a good pilot. It’s a shame that there’s so much red tape that prevents people from enjoying flying.
Cheers!
It might not count for much at this point in life with all the trouble you’ve gone through, but I for one would like to say thanks for the knowledge and experience you’re willing to share (the same thanks goes out to everyone here who’s taken the time to pass on what they’ve learned – Scud, Colonel, LC, David… lots more names I’m missing). I feel like I’m a rarity in the aviation world these days – a young-ish person who flies simply because flying is awesome, and just wants to be a better pilot. I have no desire to be a professional pilot – too much BS. I just want to be a good pilot. It’s a shame that there’s so much red tape that prevents people from enjoying flying.
Cheers!
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Chuck Ellsworth
The best thing you can do to improve your enjoyment of aviation is if you are approached by a TC inspector remember you are in far more danger than if you are being approached by a common street criminal....so tell them to fuck off and do not communicate beyond that request.
Then fly using common sense and keep trying to get better in all aspects of flying....by asking professional pilots who you can confirm are true professionals...there are tons of them out there.
The wannabees are collecting a pay check from TC and it is our money they are getting.
Then fly using common sense and keep trying to get better in all aspects of flying....by asking professional pilots who you can confirm are true professionals...there are tons of them out there.
The wannabees are collecting a pay check from TC and it is our money they are getting.
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Four Bars
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:48 am
It appears that I'm the outlier this time as I happen to think they have the potential to be useful when flying a long distance over relatively featureless terrain in less-than perfect visibility. Yes, it's possible to fly from one geopraphic feature to another by guestimatting and roughly aiming but this ends up in a less- efficient zigging and zagging plus one can get lost in a hurry by missing just one point.
Once a route has been flown a couple of times, we know where we are in relation to where we want to be and real navigation skills aren't necessary.
Now an aviation-history buff in my late sixties, I do admit to thinking of those in their Harvards and Ansons and Lancasters and Mosquitoes, etc, with solid lines and dashed lines carefully drawn on their charts, as I explain the use of these simple lines to be able to either get back on course or arrive at our destination, during groundschool or briefings and I feel a kinship with all of them.
Reading a book about flying jets in The Korean War, there was a picture of the map that the author flew with. Radiating out from his home plate were lines with numbers at the end, which were the magnetic tracks to get home from anywhere along any of those lines. Also superimposed across these lines were arcs, each labelled as to how many minutes to get back in no-wind conditions. I thought this a great dea.
When we owned a Turbo Centurion with a full panel including a slaved HSI, we flew nearly everywhere IFR. Yet, the trip that stands out was one that took us back to basics. Departing Assiniboine, Saskatchewan in mid afternoon, I circled back over the top of the airport, turned to a compass heading and jotted down the time. And felt a certain heightened alertness when I then turned all of the Silver Crown nav radios off, one at a time, the stack looked alarmingly dark, only the two comms showing any life.
Cruising at about 1000AGL, the four kids asleep in the back and my girl reading in the seat beside me, I enjoyed every minute of the flight, consulting the clock, the compass, the map and the ground, over and over: in four minutes, we should be slightly East of a railroad junction, in six minutes, we should be directly overhead a dried lakebed, etc. Oh, not quite overhead, let's alter the heading slightly. And also marvelling yet again at the huge expanse of our lightly-populated country, now unrolling swiftly below us in rarely-enjoyed detail.
The only time that I felt some confusion was when, a couple of hours later, a prominent tower appeared directly ahead. I looked at the chart several times but couldn't see any obstacle like a power station or microwave relay tower so I wasn't sure. As we continued, it grew taller and taller, dominating the horizon, directly ahead.
Turned out to be the CN Tower office building in downtown Edmonton and-as our destination was the Muni Airport- it was right where it was supposed to be.
So, why do I remember the joy of this one flight but can't remember the many flights conducted using the nav radios?
Once a route has been flown a couple of times, we know where we are in relation to where we want to be and real navigation skills aren't necessary.
Now an aviation-history buff in my late sixties, I do admit to thinking of those in their Harvards and Ansons and Lancasters and Mosquitoes, etc, with solid lines and dashed lines carefully drawn on their charts, as I explain the use of these simple lines to be able to either get back on course or arrive at our destination, during groundschool or briefings and I feel a kinship with all of them.
Reading a book about flying jets in The Korean War, there was a picture of the map that the author flew with. Radiating out from his home plate were lines with numbers at the end, which were the magnetic tracks to get home from anywhere along any of those lines. Also superimposed across these lines were arcs, each labelled as to how many minutes to get back in no-wind conditions. I thought this a great dea.
When we owned a Turbo Centurion with a full panel including a slaved HSI, we flew nearly everywhere IFR. Yet, the trip that stands out was one that took us back to basics. Departing Assiniboine, Saskatchewan in mid afternoon, I circled back over the top of the airport, turned to a compass heading and jotted down the time. And felt a certain heightened alertness when I then turned all of the Silver Crown nav radios off, one at a time, the stack looked alarmingly dark, only the two comms showing any life.
Cruising at about 1000AGL, the four kids asleep in the back and my girl reading in the seat beside me, I enjoyed every minute of the flight, consulting the clock, the compass, the map and the ground, over and over: in four minutes, we should be slightly East of a railroad junction, in six minutes, we should be directly overhead a dried lakebed, etc. Oh, not quite overhead, let's alter the heading slightly. And also marvelling yet again at the huge expanse of our lightly-populated country, now unrolling swiftly below us in rarely-enjoyed detail.
The only time that I felt some confusion was when, a couple of hours later, a prominent tower appeared directly ahead. I looked at the chart several times but couldn't see any obstacle like a power station or microwave relay tower so I wasn't sure. As we continued, it grew taller and taller, dominating the horizon, directly ahead.
Turned out to be the CN Tower office building in downtown Edmonton and-as our destination was the Muni Airport- it was right where it was supposed to be.
So, why do I remember the joy of this one flight but can't remember the many flights conducted using the nav radios?
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
I'm with you, there is something pleasurable about navigating via, clock, map and compass. Simple and satisfying like cooking over a fire.
[quote author=Four Bars link=topic=6186.msg16307#msg16307 date=1493855140]
I enjoyed every minute of the flight, consulting the clock, the compass, the map and the ground, over and over: in four minutes, we should be slightly East of a railroad junction, in six minutes, we should be directly overhead a dried lakebed, etc. Oh, not quite overhead, let's alter the heading slightly. And also marvelling yet again at the huge expanse of our lightly-populated country, now unrolling swiftly below us in rarely-enjoyed detail.
[/quote]
[quote author=Four Bars link=topic=6186.msg16307#msg16307 date=1493855140]
I enjoyed every minute of the flight, consulting the clock, the compass, the map and the ground, over and over: in four minutes, we should be slightly East of a railroad junction, in six minutes, we should be directly overhead a dried lakebed, etc. Oh, not quite overhead, let's alter the heading slightly. And also marvelling yet again at the huge expanse of our lightly-populated country, now unrolling swiftly below us in rarely-enjoyed detail.
[/quote]
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
Most flight instruction is pretty bad.
Most ground instruction is worse.
PS Navigation isn't about lines on maps.
It's about [i]holding a heading[/i]. Navigation
comes from that.
With no wind, your track is your heading.
That's pretty simple.
All you have to do is eyeball the crosswind
and accurately guesstimate your heading.
And then wait until your destination appears.
Time doesn't matter a shit unless you're
low on fuel, in which case you have to divert,
possibly back to your departure.
And the only time you have too much fuel is
when you hit the trees at the departure end
of the runway.
This was my friend Mike. You could argue he
had too much fuel.
[img width=500 height=281]http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.c ... 881963.jpg[/img]
Most ground instruction is worse.
PS Navigation isn't about lines on maps.
It's about [i]holding a heading[/i]. Navigation
comes from that.
With no wind, your track is your heading.
That's pretty simple.
All you have to do is eyeball the crosswind
and accurately guesstimate your heading.
And then wait until your destination appears.
Time doesn't matter a shit unless you're
low on fuel, in which case you have to divert,
possibly back to your departure.
And the only time you have too much fuel is
when you hit the trees at the departure end
of the runway.
This was my friend Mike. You could argue he
had too much fuel.
[img width=500 height=281]http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.c ... 881963.jpg[/img]
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
I guess there are 2 styles at work here for navigation. Draw a line and follow it on the map or as we did in the bush(considering water routes on floats, skis) is point to point. Not a straight line but in a land of a million lakes and no roads, towns, water towers and town signs it made a lot of sense. Going point to point or lake to lake in line of sight meant you were always aware of your position not trying to find it all the time.
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
In my case I don't fly enough to make my brain able to do all the math without writing out the numbers.
Same as, if I fly once a week, I start to know I'm doing about 70 knots on approach by looking outside and listening to the wind and engine sounds. Now that I fly once a year, I sort of still have a rough idea but I am not nearly as accurate. I need to glance at the asi more often and I'm not as good at making the right adjustments, subconsciously.
I use the lines I draw on a chart the same way I would use a highlighter in a book. It helps speed up finding the part I want to use.
After I draw the line between where I am leaving from and the intended final destination I look at things near or under the line. Every nice easy to recognize land mark becomes a series of destinations or checkpoints. The olde thumb near the location is even better until you need to do something with both hands.
Make a mark every ten miles and time tells me how the winds are affecting my progress. My fuel dictates how much time until the plane becomes a glider.
Obviously since a moving map with an accurate position indicator is in most people's pocket, it makes most people not want to take the time to play my games. Also even I don't need a map to go from my home airport to Red Deer industrial with full tanks. I have it onboard in case someone from BC or Ontario ramp checks me.
Same as, if I fly once a week, I start to know I'm doing about 70 knots on approach by looking outside and listening to the wind and engine sounds. Now that I fly once a year, I sort of still have a rough idea but I am not nearly as accurate. I need to glance at the asi more often and I'm not as good at making the right adjustments, subconsciously.
I use the lines I draw on a chart the same way I would use a highlighter in a book. It helps speed up finding the part I want to use.
After I draw the line between where I am leaving from and the intended final destination I look at things near or under the line. Every nice easy to recognize land mark becomes a series of destinations or checkpoints. The olde thumb near the location is even better until you need to do something with both hands.
Make a mark every ten miles and time tells me how the winds are affecting my progress. My fuel dictates how much time until the plane becomes a glider.
Obviously since a moving map with an accurate position indicator is in most people's pocket, it makes most people not want to take the time to play my games. Also even I don't need a map to go from my home airport to Red Deer industrial with full tanks. I have it onboard in case someone from BC or Ontario ramp checks me.
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