W&B before " EVERY " flighht?

Chuck Ellsworth · Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:44 pm

I see people discussing the shut down of Buffalo and there seems to be the belief that if you don't do a W&B before every flight you are dangerous.

W. T. F . kind of thinking is that?

Colonel · Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:46 am

I haven't done a W+B in years.

Chuck Ellsworth · Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:58 am

Exactly, so why do these guys get so horrified at people like you and I not doing one?

I just do not understand this rigid fear some people ( I almost said pilots. ) have about not doing a W&B before every flight.

How did aviation get this stupid?

Colonel · Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:38 am

I have no idea.

Often, you don't need to calculate W+B
to know it is within limits.

For example, Pitts S-2B with me and full
fuel, 1/2 smoke oil.

Or the Maule with full fuel and two people.

Or the L39 with two people with mains
full and tips empty, nose baggage empty.

Or the 421 with four people and mains
full.

WTF?

CpnCrunch · Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:51 am

I haven't done a W+B for years either, except when flying a flight school plane. I guess Buffalo aren't as smart as us superior pilots, as they were 1200lbs overgross which resulted in them not being able to stay in the air after an engine failure. Or perhaps it's just a little more difficult estimating the W+B in your head for a DC3 full of passengers than for a 421 with 4 passengers.

Cdnpilot77 · Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:53 am

The point of training now is not to graduate aviators, it's to program airline systems managers. If it's not on paper, it must not be important, ie: a specific graph for every possible configuration of the Boeing 172 or the Airbus PA31 in the 35minute to completion checklist.

A notable southern Ontario flight school won't give you the keys to the airplane until you pass them and verify the calculated w&b of a 152 or 172. Common sense seems to have no place anymore.

Being able to cross reference a graph is useless if you don't Understand the cause and effects of c of g and if you can understand that then you shouldn't need the graphs.

Chuck Ellsworth · Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:55 am

Yes that is so basic it is pathetic.

I remember one time one of the drones from T.C. was doing an inspection of my flight school and one of my instructors was going out on a sightseeing flight with two passengers in the Cheetah and the inspector asked me if he had done a W&B.

I told him I hoped not because if he was that stupid I would have to fire him.

It ended up with me telling the T.C. drone to violate me and lets see where that would go.

I have not heard anything yet about it.

CpnCrunch · Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:40 am

Yes, it seems to be common in all flight schools in Canada. Unfortunately when you have morons who deliberately fly overweight and then fudge the w+b to be within limits, then crash, it just makes this worse. You can thank people like Buffalo Joe for this crap.

Chuck Ellsworth · Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:09 am

How come there are times that it is O.K. with T.C. for us to take off many thousands of pounds over the max gross weight Crunch?

I did it quite often, does that make me a moron?

CpnCrunch · Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:31 am

Chuck Ellsworth wrote: How come there are times that it is O.K. with T.C. for us to take off many thousands of pounds over the max gross weight Crunch?

I did it quite often, does that make me a moron?

I don't know, you tell me. I'm guessing maybe you had a ferry permit and weren't carrying fare-paying passengers.