W&B before " EVERY " flighht?

Chuck Ellsworth · Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:17 pm

MCRIT has summed this subject up precisely as it really is.

I walked away from several jobs when they demanded I fly overloaded.

When we qualify for a pilot license to fly commercially part of the training is understanding the rules by which we must abide to be legal.

For me it is simple.

I confirm the legal gross weight for take off of the airplane.

If the legal weight is lets say 1000 pounds I refuse to fly at 1001 pounds.

That way there is no room for error.

Chuck Ellsworth · Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:53 pm

So I am to understand that if you want to rent a Cessna 172 for a solo flight from a FTU you " must " do a complete W&B and a graph to show it is within legal limits?

Jesus this industry is fucked up.

Cdnpilot77 · Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:29 pm

Chuck Ellsworth wrote: So I am to understand that if you want to rent a Cessna 172 for a solo flight from a FTU you " must " do a complete W&B and a graph to show it is within legal limits?

Jesus this industry is fucked up.

Yes and you must also do a 1.5 hr checkout with an instructor if you haven't flown the mighty 172 in the past 60 days or a circuit check if it's been between 45-60 days.

I fly citations now and I do a weight and balance for every leg. It's computer generated and takes about 30secs to do but it gets done. Why? Not because I don't know the loading, I know exactly what and where I can put things with my fuel, human and baggage loads. I know the airplane has a forward c of g and nearly impossible to put out out aft without trying really hard to do it. But, when it comes to audit time, if they pull a flight envelope, it had better be in there or you better start checking the hinges in the gallows.

CpnCrunch · Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:35 pm

Chuck Ellsworth wrote: MCRIT has summed this subject up precisely as it really is.

I walked away from several jobs when they demanded I fly overloaded.

When we qualify for a pilot license to fly commercially part of the training is understanding the rules by which we must abide to be legal.

For me it is simple.

I confirm the legal gross weight for take off of the airplane.

If the legal weight is lets say 1000 pounds I refuse to fly at 1001 pounds.

That way there is no room for error.

So if you agree that we shouldn't fly illegally over gross, why the big drama and yelling trying to defend Buffalo? Or is it ok for Joe's employees to fly overloaded illegally because he's your friend and he has "good hands and feet"?

Chuck Ellsworth · Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:49 pm

Crunch, go find someone else to badger, I will not reply to anything you post here because it just fuels your desire to denigrate people who have actually accomplished something in aviation.

Go find B.P.F. he is more your type of people.

Cdnpilot77 · Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:54 pm

CpnCrunch....although I hate to get into this pissing match, why don't you share with the crowd the lecture you gave me about how flying a full procedure NDB approach by the charts, using an ADF is one of the most dangerous things you can do in aviation? I'm sure someone like chuck, who I would say has flown since before instruments were invented and has managed to stay alive, would be interested in this. Are you instrument rated?

CpnCrunch · Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:02 pm

Cdnpilot77 wrote: CpnCrunch....although I hate to get into this pissing match, why don't you share with the crowd the lecture you gave me about how flying a full procedure NDB approach by the charts, using an ADF is one of the most dangerous things you can do in aviation? I'm sure someone like chuck, who I would say has flown since before instruments were invented and has managed to stay alive, would be interested in this. Are you instrument rated?

Yes, I am instrument rated. I had a look back at that thread, and nowhere did I say anything like that. I just agreed with BPF that the GPS might be more accurate, so you should probably use it as well.

Have you ever flown an NDB approach which requires a turn at the beacon, without using any GPS, in gusty conditions? If so, how accurate was your outbound tracking?

Chuck Ellsworth · Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:09 pm

Thanks 77, you are putting this into its proper perspective and thus helping to ensure this new forum is for people who actually know what they are talking about.

Anyone ignorant enough to suggest NDP approaches are one of the most dangerous things you can do in aviation should be ignored because he does not have a clue about the subject.

The NDB approach flown as outlined on the charts is one of the safest approaches you can do because the terrain avoidance limits are so high.

Anyhow thanks again because even this guy has to realize just how stupid he comes across in a subject about flying.

Cdnpilot77 · Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:30 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Cdnpilot77 wrote: CpnCrunch....although I hate to get into this pissing match, why don't you share with the crowd the lecture you gave me about how flying a full procedure NDB approach by the charts, using an ADF is one of the most dangerous things you can do in aviation? I'm sure someone like chuck, who I would say has flown since before instruments were invented and has managed to stay alive, would be interested in this. Are you instrument rated?

Yes, I am instrument rated. I had a look back at that thread, and nowhere did I say anything like that. I just agreed with BPF that the GPS might be more accurate, so you should probably use it as well.

Have you ever flown an NDB approach which requires a turn at the beacon, without using any GPS, in gusty conditions? If so, how accurate was your outbound tracking?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have, one time in weather near minimums our GPS unreliable, and I survived. I have not once ever relied on any one single piece of technology to get a job done safely and I have never scratched an airplane.