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CpnCrunch
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:46 pm

Strega wrote:
How come you never answered my question?


How many times have you had an engine quit in a me airplane?

I've never had an engine quit in the air in any plane, but I've also never done anything dumb to cause the engine to quit.


Sometimes you don't need to experience something to know that it's a bad idea. In fact, sometimes experience can lead you into a false sense of security, like flying VFR in half mile viz, low flying in the mountains, etc. You get away with it 99 times out of 100, so it seems like a good idea.


Strega
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 1:43 am

Also my site is just better.



I agree :)


I love it on the other site how I mention big pistons, and everyone believes Im "attacking" him....


Maybe I should send him a hurt feelings report...
Strega
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 1:43 am

Sometimes you don't need to experience something to know that it's a bad idea. In fact, sometimes experience can lead you into a false sense of security, like flying VFR in half mile viz, low flying in the mountains, etc. You get away with it 99 times out of 100, so it seems like a good idea.

Show me an accident report from shutting off the fuel to simulate an engine failure?

We are all waiting.
David MacRay
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm

I though this site was started so if I de-railed a topic talking about beer or something the report button would not get used like a speed bag.
Chuck Ellsworth

Well nothing has changed on Avcanada, I posted my thoughts on stregas thread about engine failure training and lo and behold most of my comments were deleted because a moderator decided I was making a personal attack on B.P.F.


B.P.F. related how he lost control of an airplane teaching multi engine and ended up on his back and recovered by doing a split S.


So it seems that if someone has the opinion that doing a split s in a twin to recover from rolling upside down is a very risky manoeuvre it is a personal attack.



ScudRunner-d95
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm

Strega wrote:
Also my site is just better.



I agree :)


I love it on the other site how I mention big pistons, and everyone believes Im "attacking" him....


Maybe I should send him a hurt feelings report...
ImageImage
Chuck Ellsworth

This site allows people to express their opinions about flying and if the opinion is within normal known facts regarding aircraft handling methods it is not deleted.




This latest deleting of most of my comments about how strega teaches and how B.P.F. teaches was only my opinion and it is based on my own experience teaching in multi engine airplanes.


So on this site I will repeat what I said.


If you lose control of a twin engine airplane during training and the airplane ends upside down and you split S to recover you are at high risk of over stressing the arframe and if you get away with it you are lucky.




if that is a personal attack so be it, a lot of low time pilots read these forums and as far as I am concerned they should have the option of examining different opinions on something as important as how to recover from a loss of control.

Liquid Charlie
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm

Most of us might go through our whole career and never lose and engine but the chance is still there. Reliability is getting better but still some "older" aircraft out there. I have only had 1 engine cold cock quit. It was a turbine and it auto feathered. HP pump which is likely about the only component that will give you that sudden, no warning failure. All my piston engine failures gave me lots of notice. Some were shut down and others were not. Unlike turbines and jets piston engines generally just don't quit without giving you a hint. In the turbine world I had 9 shut downs in one year all precautionary and about half prop related.

Contrary to what one might believe the "old" way of ME training has gone because of at least 2 very tragic accidents during training and a ride. One was engine cut too close to the ground on a missed approach which resulted in a flat spin which I might add could even challenge you at altitude. The other was a 2 otter with a engine shut down and finger problems during the relight resulting in the 2 engine failed (as I remember it but I could have to specific details confused)

I am a critic of airborne training. I think it's close to useless and I think simulators are the only proper way for a commercial operation but that's pie in the sky dreaming. I digress, I have always been a big proponent of treating engines with respect and with a gentle touch. Never drive the engine with the prop and on the big ones always min 100 BMEP until the final flair. It's all about the future and depending on your engine. Abuse it and it will come back to haunt you at the worst possible time.
Colonel
Posts: 3450
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am

the airplane ends upside down and you split S to recover
Regardless of how many engines you have, or
how you got there ...

Recovery from inverted via a downward vertical maneuver
(which rapidly converts altitude to airspeed and almost
always ends up overstressing the airframe with excessive G)
is about the worst possible error recovery technique there
is, even if it's a TC Inspector pushing it.

Even in a very strong aerobatic aircraft this maneuver
must be flown carefully (ie entered very slowly, with lots
of altitude) to avoid hitting the ground, or pulling enough
G to permanently damage the airframe, or blacking out
and losing control.

It takes some practice to pull +10G without blacking out,
as you permanently damage the airframe, possibly to the
point of complete catastrophic failure.

I am only an engineer and airshow pilot so I probably don't
know as much about this sort of thing as compared to a TC
Inspector, but when you are inverted, the following are the
best recovery techniques:

1) push to the 45 inverted upline and 1/2 roll upright to level
(Best at low altitude - absolute minimum loss of altitude. 
Done it many times.  In formation)

2) 1/2 roll upright and pull like a bugger to level from the
resulting 45 upright downline.  This technique chews up more
altitude than #1 but is not suicidal like the split-s technique,
recommended by TC Inspectors.

Most pilots would prefer to die than push a little -ve G, so
door #2 is probably best for them.

Just please, don't split-s?  I do it very carefully at low
altitude but I have been flying accident-free for over
40 years, which is something a TC Inspector can't tell you.

TC hasn't a clue about this.  For example, they tell you
to retard the throttle during a downward vertical recovery,
which results in excessive altitude loss, and possibly
impacting the ground.  You know, death.  That's what
they're teaching.

Minimum altitude loss is achieved by using full throttle.

Something TC doesn't understand, and never will.

Many times on Saturday I was pointed vertically downwards
at 180 mph at 500 feet above the runway and pulled +6G
to level above the runway.  At full throttle. 

Perhaps I have a clue about what I speak.

Many TC Inspectors clearly do not.
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