737 max groundings.

[vanNostrum]

quote:

" I will look forward to watching a Boeing engineer explain MCAS and it’s purpose and reason of existence to the geezers in Congress''

[Colonel]

Funny how there's no fake outrage against the pitch control software
that prevents Boeing tailstrikes.

MCAS is the whipping boy de jour, but the problem arises when you
have an AOA sensor failure which drives the software nuts.  Personally,
I think the MCAS should kick offline when a flight data input error is
detected (eg AOA sensors disagree) but the FAA and TC probably
won't let that happen.  Makes too much sense.

No one remembers the faulty pitot tubes on the A330's. Some pilots
could fly without airspeed, but some could not, because they didn't
know that ATTITUDE + POWER = PERFORMANCE.

This young generation of pilots, that thinks they should never have
to fly a broken airplane, have a lot to learn.  Airplanes break.  When
they do, the job of the pilot is to fly the broken airplane.

Remember, when you cheat the system and get into a Boeing with
200TT, you are [u]WINNING[/u] like Charlie Sheen.  Right up until
the moment of impact.

[Liquid Charlie]

I'm going to make a pretty simple blanket statement. The Americans got it right and the rest of the wold is wrong. There is no fucking way a commercial license should be sitting in the right seat of a transport category aircraft. 

[Colonel]

No one cares about this, but before the crash, the Ethiopian 737 Max
was flying at an extraordinarily fast speed.  This means that the pilots
pushed the throttles all the way forward, in response to the nonsense
coming from the airplane because of the nearly-certain AOA failure.

The excess speed resulted in the stab having MUCH more authority,
and making the pitch oscillations much more wild.

No one talks about that, of course, while the Europeans play political
football with the CVR and FDR.

And, no one has the fundamental stick & rudder skill any more - remember,
that's obsolete - to know that Attitude + Power = Performance.

If you put the nose where it usually is, and the power where it usually goes,
if you're flying the same airplane, it will do the same thing.

[Colonel]

Everyone acts as if flight data input errors are a "new thing".  Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest ... light_6231

[quote]Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 6231 was the fatal crash of a Boeing 727 on December 1, 1974 in Harriman State Park near Stony Point, New York.

All three crew members on board died when the aircraft struck the ground following a stall and rapid descent caused by the crew's reaction to erroneous airspeed readings caused by atmospheric icing.

The icing occurred due to failure to turn on the pitot tube heating at the start of the flight. This was one of [u]two Boeing 727s to crash in the United States that day[/u]; the other was TWA Flight 514 in northern Virginia, northwest of Dulles airport.

the flightcrew had not activated the pitot head heaters and the pitot tubes had become blocked with ice which caused the crew to receive incorrect airspeed readings. The crew, believing the readings were true, pulled back on the control column and raised the nose, which caused the aircraft to stall

When investigators analysed the 727's voice recorder, the recording revealed that the pilots believed that the shaking of the stick shaker mechanism was [u]caused by the airliner reaching the speed of sound[/u], and not a warning that it was going into a stall[/quote]

Two 727's crashed the same day!  Ground the fleet!

Fuck, it's Groundhog Day.  Again.

[Colonel]

I almost died one night, decades ago, when I had a static port plug up
in a descent.

Airspeed was consistent and wildly over-reading.  On final, it was trying
to make me reduce power to stall and die.  I ignored it because I am a
VERY BAD PERSONâ„¢ and ATTITUDE + POWER = PERFORMANCE

As is usual, I didn't figure out the root cause until after I had landed.

No alternate static on that airplane anyways.  Steve McQueen would
have punched out the face of the VSI with his fist - or maybe Chuck
Norris - but my kickboxing skills aren't up to that.

Anyways, the guys in the pretty uniforms need to skip all that stupid
experience, and keep climbing into Boeings at 200TT.  They are
[u]WINNING[/u].

[Eric Janson]

One thing people need to understand when talking about 200TT in the right seat of jets.

A lot of countries have minimal to no General Aviation - that was certainly the case in Sri Lanka.

There was no way for Pilots to build experience after completing their training. The only jobs were at the National Carrier. You will find this is the case in a lot of countries.

I used to get Cadets straight after they completed their Line Training. You had to watch out - a few tried to fly me into the ground. They needed help when they encountered something new.

I never had to take control from any of them - the worst I've had to do was to issue verbal commands to stop a rapidly deteriorating situation.

[Liquid Charlie]

[quote]A lot of countries have minimal to no General Aviation - that was certainly the case in Sri Lanka.[/quote]

I get that but not too long ago (and this was supported by JAZZ) was the proposal for non pilot licensed right seat crew, can't remember the name of the program but in essence creating single pilot 705/121 aircraft crews. I also know that up until about 8 or 10 years ago F/O's in the USA were not type rated. Trained but not endorsed. Not sure what the thinking was there. So if you don't address the faults by experience levels and training how do you fix the fact that aircraft are thundering in due to bad crew procedures and the lack of systems knowledge. The whole evolution of aviation has created a significant catch 22.

[Salt]

[quote author=Liquid Charlie link=topic=9535.msg27213#msg27213 date=1552931926]
[quote]
I get that but not too long ago (and this was supported by JAZZ) was the proposal for non pilot licensed right seat crew, can't remember the name of the program but in essence creating single pilot 705/121 aircraft crews.
[/quote]

Was it the Multi Crew Pilot License? Give the industry another couple years at the current pilot gap and the term will likely be in vogue.

[Liquid Charlie]

It's pretty simple to me, all front end crew members require an ATP - that simple and if there is a crew shortage initially park the fucking aircraft until you have the crew.