Scudrunners

Well yes of course .. that was the only real point. Where's the power when needed ... how is the Cessna left flat to plop on the ground there if so many other times it didn't ...


Reports (like the fighter pilot's) are designed for that .. to shed light on the major things but also to include detail that helps prevent other accidents, .. even it it's hard or iimpossible to explain exactly at the time.


I'll stick with YYZ .. so close (for that V-data)


YYZ 120@ 6kt  90V150  .. showing there at surface/6pm  but 5pm  from 04@ 5kt/surface.

The flat/heavy accident-sequence likely begins well above surface but also well back .. in the different air .. but changes over into the other (a minor factor) very fast because of very sleek speed .. which promps to cut power at even flatter drag-making attitude ....  gets much too slow in 2-4sec  ..[i]feels like instant .. only because finds himself/herself at that point (so fast) well-behind the curve already.[/i]

[i]EDIT:[/i]
[i](the last line there)[/i]
[i]feels like instant ... only because the RATE by which it falls behind the curve mushrooms heavily for those reasons given (the stuff happening altogether) .. ie: it goes exponential (it comes up so fast .. so it's all over / no chance for recovery .. in 2-4sec as opposed to taking much longer on average [b]where one/a-student might soon start getting tempted over time to slip and do stuff like that [/b](no 'obstacle training importance' as the Col puts it)[/i]

PDW:

I don't understand your last post at all. 

Have a look at the link and then explain what it is you're trying to convey. 

John

As far as I can tell, the A/B there is activated after the slow part of the event; that is, AFTER a gradual pitch reduction again with normal engine power. I have to study this example video a few more times though, .. where I find it hard to see exactly where the A/B engagement happens. I remember years ago at airshows there was no doubt when the A/B kicked in.


In the bailout video of the F18 Lethbridge Jul2010 it sounded from the report like it became necessary to use A/B to escape the manuevre once it went awry (normally completed without it .. but seemed there like it is to be used in the event something isn't right) and it reads like it definitely became necessry for more than just using it in the typical way for disappearing vertically skyward after ... for effect.


Unlike that Lethbridge accident video (also available), in your helpful example-video above the A/B seems to engage once already speeding away into level flight. In Lethbridge the "activator piston" was determined to have failed right there on the spot (from the report, and correct me if I've misinterpreted something there) so there's no indication it hadn't been working in prior engagements / previous operation. Possibly two separate issues there ? .. Perhaps it could be simply the primary [i]thing-gone-wrong (the invisible wx) [/i]is difficult to interpret ? .. then IMO it really helps that the F18 pilot (in chute photo) has mentioned that for the record [i]for all to see[/i].


The only thing relatable here to the tread topic IMO is how [i]imparting power to the Cessna airframe when getting too late (already established into sinkrate) [/i]gets described. Col is right there; knowing that possibilty exists to get behind a power curve and be helpless to do anything about it maybe is not occurring to enough pilots doing that 'long runway thing' a-lot/with-ease and then suddenly having to crimp that habit onto a 'short one' with some other factors [i]never before together[/i]: ..  night (after dusk), a little fatigue(if long day), 'shallow approach' ("little flap" if any), full occupancy, and the short 08 with "90V150".

Hey tech support, how does this thread keep getting marked unread?  I've read it many times.  Can't really comprehend it, but have read it.

[quote author=Slick Goodlin link=topic=7548.msg21152#msg21152 date=1513210896]
Hey tech support, how does this thread keep getting marked unread?  I've read it many times.  Can't really comprehend it, but have read it.
[/quote]


I think it's from PDW's edits. Every time he changes his post and re-submits it comes up as an unread response.

You don't enjoy re-reading them over and over again?

For those interested, the full report of the Lethbridge accident:

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/assets ... ul2010.pdf