Why is the yawing movement the least understood part of aircraft handling???

[Big Pistons Forever]

I’ve been doing Instructor ratings in Ontario for the last few years. I’ve noticed yaw and centre line control are generally pretty weak in recent CPL graduates.

My experience also. I think a large part of the problem was that from 2016 to the end of 2019 instructing was usually a drive by job. The huge turnover in the instructor ranks and explosion in the demand for CPL instruction meant that many new Class 4’s were teaching CPL students, and often not doing a very good job at it. COVID-19 has resulted in many laid off x instructors going back to FTU’s. It sucks for them but is great for the students.

As was already mentioned the C172 had become the dominant training aircraft and is possibly the worst training aircraft ever. It is simply too easy to fly and too forgiving of poor handling. You can still produce good pilots in this airplane but it requires a very diligent instructor.

The C150 is a far better trainer IMO but the reality is that people are now just too big and/or heavy to fit in it so they are rapidly disappearing from FTU’s

At least in the Pacific Region TC has recognized that in general, it appears not enough emphasis is being placed on teaching the foundation flying skills and is stressing the importance of properly teaching ex 5 to 9

As I gained experience instructing I found my students time to solo increased but time to PPL decreased and flight test scores substantially increased. This was because I spent more time ensuring the students had mastered the foundation maneuvers before going to the circuit.

For new instructors reading this my number 1 training aid is a pad of post it notes. I use it to cover the AI for all early lessons, altimeter when teaching straight and level and the ASI when teaching climbs and descents. This forces the student to look out the windshield and establish the desired pitch attitude.

[mcrit]

Help me understand..

What do you mean by “weak”.
How prevalent is it?
How quickly do your student’s respond to correcting it? ( if this is a training issue, it seems it should be correctable very easily and quickly. If it is a habit from just being careless or sloppy, it might mean more work). Your observations would be of great interest.

As to the definition of “weak”. Can you be more specific? And clarify generalizations, as opposed to extreme examples.

By weak rudder and centre line control I mean on T/O and landing main gear oscillates from one side of the centre line to the other due to late and overly aggressive corrections, during turns no rudder is used on entry. It generally takes me 4 to 5 hours of dual to correct these problems. These are not things I should be seeing from a 200 hr CPL. I found these issues in ~ 4 out of 5 new instructor candidates.

[trey kule]

Thanks,
Though I am not clear about oscillating gear on takeoff.

With regards to adverse yaw , the King Cessna Pilot Centers videos do a great job of explaining it and demonstrating in the air.
For a preflight they are really a great resource. Allows the student to understand and see done perfectly without any distractions.

[digits]

I don't think those issues come from a lack of understanding. I'm sure most of those pilots would be able to explain to you what the rudder does, and how it should, ideally, be used. It's just that the consequences of not using it perfectly in most airplanes are so benign that an "it doesn't really matter" attitude is easily developed.

It's a bit like a mental eye roll when a glideslope is flown 1 dot high in a light trainer when the instructor says it's important not to do that, which could be a serious issue in a large(r) jet.
Or the use of carbu heat before a pilot experiences carb icing. Or a walk around that is done quickly until the moment they discover something seriously wrong.

People understand all those things, but as long as they don't truly believe it is important, one does not fully apply themselves to try and do it perfectly.

[trey kule]

To backtrack a bit, BPF,

That comment about more time doing basics was interesting. Decades ago I had a CFI that said the same thing. His time in circuit before solo was minimal. By the time they got to that point, they could pretty much fly the plane with precision.

All I can recall from PTRs at the time was minimal in terms of what level of ability the student should have in the basics. Kind of at the instructor’s discretion.
Is there some guidance for instructors, particularly new ones, to assess a pre solo students mastery of the basics?

[mcrit]

Thanks,
Though I am not clear about oscillating gear on takeoff.

With regards to adverse yaw , the King Cessna Pilot Centers videos do a great job of explaining it and demonstrating in the air.
For a preflight they are really a great resource. Allows the student to understand and see done perfectly without any distractions.

By gear oscillating to either side of the centre line I mean we start on the centreline, power is applied and we track left of centreline until the right main gear is left of centreline, then a correction is added and we track right until the left main gear is right of centreline, and the cycle repeats.

[Big Pistons Forever]

To backtrack a bit, BPF,

That comment about more time doing basics was interesting. Decades ago I had a CFI that said the same thing. His time in circuit before solo was minimal. By the time they got to that point, they could pretty much fly the plane with precision.

All I can recall from PTRs at the time was minimal in terms of what level of ability the student should have in the basics. Kind of at the instructor’s discretion.
Is there some guidance for instructors, particularly new ones, to assess a pre solo students mastery of the basics?

The TC Flight Instructor Guide Lesson Plans all start with an explanatory preamble. The first lesson plan is intended for an introductory flight and is intended to expose the prospective student to the miracle of flight. ( I called these “another life ruined” flights). Formal instruction starts at Lesson Plan 2.

Lesson Plan 2 encompasses instruction on all the foundation maneuvers, Attitudes and Movements, Straight and Level, Turns, and Climbs and Descents.

The preamble for this Lesson Plan is

“The student should be able to perform basic climbs, descents, turns and level flight without assistance within suitable tolerances assigned by the instructor”

While not specific I think the intent is pretty clear, especially the “without assistance”. My personal experience is it usually takes 4 flights before I am happy to move on to Lesson Plan 3. Of note the circuit is Lesson Plan 8 so there will plenty of time to refine general flying skills in subsequent instructional flights.

We won’t spend a lot of time circuit bashing before first solo because the only new skill to learn is the flare and hold off to the landing attitude.

[trey kule]

“”within suitable tolerances assigned by the instructor”“

From what I can tell, you have the experience and ability to assess what suitable tolerances are at that stage of training,

But to circle back to the subject of yaw, it seems, from the experience of two of you here, that many instructors, for whatever reasons, do not have that ability.

Is there some instruction given to class 4 candidates regarding assessing suitable skill levels at different stages in training? Other than TC flight test tolerances which apply on completion of training.

I witnessed a rather disturbing trend with instructors the last few years where most of every lesson consisted of demonstrate..test....to mush assessing and testing. Not enough sitting mostly quiet and letting a student practice the manoeuvres. With only the occasional whack to their head.

The other issue I observed is the inability of some instructors to intigrate several lesson plans and build upon the skills. There is no single dedicated lesson plan to yaw. ( being facetious).

Hopefully, some of the instructors returning to the fold are not the same ones, who, for whatever reason, did not deal with yaw before. Not entirely sure of how a hiatus is going to transform a poor instructor into a great instructor....

[Liquid_Charlie]

It reflects their experience, while there is a group out there that never lose grabitis and screaming, with experience and with that confidence building a good instructor, pilots as well, emerge.

Stick and rudder skills (as I have stated before) erode because of lack of use of certain aspects, such as yaw control, modern aircraft design and automation are the largest contributors.

You instruct a pilot and he achieves his licences and has a total time of 50 hours or as in a commercial, 200 hours. How can we even begin to believe that they have hard set their flying muscle memory. No wonder skill levels erode rapidly in this group. Use it or lose it, very simple.

I have trained pilots coming off flying auto pilots to a completely hand-bomb aircraft. The first few hours were pretty entertainingly frustrating.

[TwinOtterFan]

THIS!!

I witnessed a rather disturbing trend with instructors the last few years where most of every lesson consisted of demonstrate..test....to mush assessing and testing. Not enough sitting mostly quiet and letting a student practice the manoeuvres. With only the occasional whack to their head.

I'm only a baby in aviation, PPL student, but this for sure, on more than one occasion my instructor has demonstrated something asked me to do it, I give it a sub par go and then wants to move on, to which I say no, I'd like to do that again, and again actually.

As for yaw, I honestly feel that it was glossed over, I have more hours than I'd like to have in my training and I am just finally getting a handle on those "foot rest" And it really just came from not cramming lessons into an hour flight and just playing with them, I went out and just practiced slipping down highways and doing forced approaches with flaps 20 and slips. And even though I'm done all my circuits and free to solo I have still booked circuits with my instructor when the winds are to high for student solos just to play in the xwind.

I realize these are my fixes to the problem, and it won't change the way instructors train. At least not right away, but I do plan on becoming an instructor. I look at it as a pertinent negative, I'm still learning how to instruct, I learned that I will not instruct that way.

Just my two cents, for what a PPL student can off anyway.