When reducing power for an approach and landing do you understand the effect of shock cooling and how to reduce same?
Some twin engine airplanes are very susceptible to engine damage caused by shock cooling, for instance the C117.
Were you taught the importance of shock cooling in engine handling?
Shock cooling.
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5438.msg14030#msg14030 date=1484788387]
When reducing power for an approach and landing do you understand the effect of shock cooling and how to reduce same?
Some twin engine airplanes are very susceptible to engine damage caused by shock cooling, for instance the C117.
Were you taught the importance of shock cooling in engine handling?
[/quote]
Taught. No.
Studied. Yes. Applied. Yes. Because in whatever I do, I am a student, and seek knowledge, whether taught by an instructor or not.
This includes my business in which unlike aviation, I am one of a handful of really experienced professionals in the whole country. And I am still a student.
It is not only the instructors job to teach, but the students job to seek knowledge and strive for continuous improvement. Excellence should be the standard, but it all so rare.
When reducing power for an approach and landing do you understand the effect of shock cooling and how to reduce same?
Some twin engine airplanes are very susceptible to engine damage caused by shock cooling, for instance the C117.
Were you taught the importance of shock cooling in engine handling?
[/quote]
Taught. No.
Studied. Yes. Applied. Yes. Because in whatever I do, I am a student, and seek knowledge, whether taught by an instructor or not.
This includes my business in which unlike aviation, I am one of a handful of really experienced professionals in the whole country. And I am still a student.
It is not only the instructors job to teach, but the students job to seek knowledge and strive for continuous improvement. Excellence should be the standard, but it all so rare.
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
[quote author=Rookie Pilot link=topic=5438.msg14032#msg14032 date=1484791435]
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5438.msg14030#msg14030 date=1484788387]
When reducing power for an approach and landing do you understand the effect of shock cooling and how to reduce same?
Some twin engine airplanes are very susceptible to engine damage caused by shock cooling, for instance the C117.
Were you taught the importance of shock cooling in engine handling?
[/quote]
Taught. No.
Studied. Yes. Applied. Yes. Because in whatever I do, I am a student, and seek knowledge, whether taught by an instructor or not.
This includes my business in which unlike aviation, I am one of a handful of really experienced professionals in the whole country. And I am still a student.
It is not only the instructors job to teach, but the students job to seek knowledge and strive for continuous improvement. Excellence should be the standard, but it all so rare.
Anyway to answer how, a constant power setting should be possible right from top of descent all the way to the downwind - base leg, leaving the mixture leaned, cowl flaps closed. That should bring temps down slowly, then mixture can be advanced on final.
[/quote]
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5438.msg14030#msg14030 date=1484788387]
When reducing power for an approach and landing do you understand the effect of shock cooling and how to reduce same?
Some twin engine airplanes are very susceptible to engine damage caused by shock cooling, for instance the C117.
Were you taught the importance of shock cooling in engine handling?
[/quote]
Taught. No.
Studied. Yes. Applied. Yes. Because in whatever I do, I am a student, and seek knowledge, whether taught by an instructor or not.
This includes my business in which unlike aviation, I am one of a handful of really experienced professionals in the whole country. And I am still a student.
It is not only the instructors job to teach, but the students job to seek knowledge and strive for continuous improvement. Excellence should be the standard, but it all so rare.
Anyway to answer how, a constant power setting should be possible right from top of descent all the way to the downwind - base leg, leaving the mixture leaned, cowl flaps closed. That should bring temps down slowly, then mixture can be advanced on final.
[/quote]
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Chuck Ellsworth
[quote]Taught. No. [/quote]
You should be commended for self study, however most pilots do not bother to self teach.
Do you believe that this basic subject should be taught as part of the PPL flight training syllabus?
You should be commended for self study, however most pilots do not bother to self teach.
Do you believe that this basic subject should be taught as part of the PPL flight training syllabus?
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John Swallow
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm
I have always avoided long, low power descents and have studiously refrained from fast power changes from high to low. However, then along comes some information from folks a lot more knowledgeable than I:
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182883-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/features/Engi ... 921-1.html
Should "shock cooling" be taught as part of the basic syllabus? In view of those articles, I'd say that more definitive input from engine manufacturers would be required...
John
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182883-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/features/Engi ... 921-1.html
Should "shock cooling" be taught as part of the basic syllabus? In view of those articles, I'd say that more definitive input from engine manufacturers would be required...
John
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
Here's an article that's interesting to read:
[url=https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=170325]https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=170325[/url]
The TSB is remarkably mute on this one. It's a Lycoming,
for God's sake. Interesting story behind this one, even
if it's been hushed up.
As far as shock cooling ... there are plenty of cracked
cylinder heads out there. It is well-known that a ham-fisted
pilot could take a new TCM GTSIO-520 in a C421 and destroy
it in 100 hours. Or, it could last to TBO. At USD$75,000
per side, plus downtime, I'm not sure if that's a negligible
consideration or not.
Similarly, the TCM IO-360 engine is generally regarded as
shit by ham-fisted commercial pilots everywhere. I've been
flying the same one for 46 years now. Long past TBO, all
the original cylinders are still on it. Not a crack anywhere.
[img width=500 height=430][/img]
See the difference?
I've pretty much given up trying to teach people not to
wreck shit. It makes them happy. Why would I want
them not to be happy?
[url=https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=170325]https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=170325[/url]
The TSB is remarkably mute on this one. It's a Lycoming,
for God's sake. Interesting story behind this one, even
if it's been hushed up.
As far as shock cooling ... there are plenty of cracked
cylinder heads out there. It is well-known that a ham-fisted
pilot could take a new TCM GTSIO-520 in a C421 and destroy
it in 100 hours. Or, it could last to TBO. At USD$75,000
per side, plus downtime, I'm not sure if that's a negligible
consideration or not.
Similarly, the TCM IO-360 engine is generally regarded as
shit by ham-fisted commercial pilots everywhere. I've been
flying the same one for 46 years now. Long past TBO, all
the original cylinders are still on it. Not a crack anywhere.
[img width=500 height=430][/img]
See the difference?
I've pretty much given up trying to teach people not to
wreck shit. It makes them happy. Why would I want
them not to be happy?
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Rookie Pilot
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 am
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5438.msg14034#msg14034 date=1484791836]
[quote]Taught. No. [/quote]
You should be commended for self study, however most pilots do not bother to self teach.
Do you believe that this basic subject should be taught as part of the PPL flight training syllabus?
[/quote]
A lot of things should be taught, Chuck, but if they aren't, it's the students responsibilty to study.
I've taken my experience in the investment field and I teach concepts, for free, to selected charitable groups.
The level of ignorance on the most basic concepts is shocking. And the industry likes it that way. You think instructors are bad. By comparison most financial advisors are downright criminal with their client treatment.
[quote]Taught. No. [/quote]
You should be commended for self study, however most pilots do not bother to self teach.
Do you believe that this basic subject should be taught as part of the PPL flight training syllabus?
[/quote]
A lot of things should be taught, Chuck, but if they aren't, it's the students responsibilty to study.
I've taken my experience in the investment field and I teach concepts, for free, to selected charitable groups.
The level of ignorance on the most basic concepts is shocking. And the industry likes it that way. You think instructors are bad. By comparison most financial advisors are downright criminal with their client treatment.
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Chuck Ellsworth
The internet can be a very efficient tool if used properly.
For instance this forum has some of aviation's most knowledgeable people in it and they freely give advice.
Generally the advice you get here is reliable because Scuds forum is self moderated and if someone posts horseshit it does not take long for it to be exposed as horseshit.
Politically correct, warm fuzzy posts are rare here. :)
For instance this forum has some of aviation's most knowledgeable people in it and they freely give advice.
Generally the advice you get here is reliable because Scuds forum is self moderated and if someone posts horseshit it does not take long for it to be exposed as horseshit.
Politically correct, warm fuzzy posts are rare here. :)
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ScudRunner-d95
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:08 pm
[img width=500 height=500]http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/65/65f4032d ... 0506d0.jpg[/img]