Touch and goes.

[Colonel]

It scares the hell out of me when I hear and read these people saying it is unsafe to teach touch and goes on retractable gear airplanes.

They're just trying to dumb aviation down.  Implicit
in their thinking is that everything should be arranged
so that anyone, regardless of how incompetent they
are, should be able to fly - and that's their first mistake.

Having spent 25 years instructing, I can tell you that
not everyone is meant to be a pilot - especially a
working pilot.

[Colonel]

students ... assume the goal is to be fast

If you watch the best, they are never in a hurry
and their hands are never a blur.

And then there were these guys:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAsia_Airways_Flight_235

the left engine, which does not appear to have had suffered a malfunction, had been manually shut off

... after the failure of one engine, the pilot incorrectly shut down the other, working engine

I'm sure you couldn't trust these guys with a touch and go, either.

The Civil Aeronautics Administration announced it would subject all TransAsia Airways ATR pilots to supplementary proficiency tests.

Ten pilots who failed the engine-out oral test and a further nineteen who did not attend were suspended for one month

Who the fuck are the 19 pilots that couldn't be bothered
to show up?  Were their navigational skills so poor that
they couldn't locate the test facility, and spent the day
driving around the city?

Why does everyone think that aviation can be dumbed
down so that someone with an IQ of 70 can fly?

No comments about TC Inspectors, who generate CADORs
every time they try to commit aviation.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 0h0007.pdf

[Slick Goodlin]

Why would a pilot retract the gear during a touch and go rather then the flaps? One you must reach for the other is much closer, I really don't understand.

Hard to believe, yes, but it happens.  I suppose you could blame primacy when the first RG plane you trained on could be different from what you're in now (I'm looking your way, Beech) but in the end I think you nailed it with your "Slow down and don't fuck up" mantra.  I push the same thing at work.  Incidentally, are you looking for a job?


What pisses me (and I'm sure all of you) off about this thing is the way the modern instructor teaches as if every situation is the same every single time.  I'm okay with "you can't do touch and goes in a twin on this runway, followed by an explanation why.  That makes a better pilot, and there's a 50/50 chance you're also making a better future instructor.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I would also like to note that the SOP for every commercial operations I ever flew for, was that nothing in the cockpit moved until the aircraft was off the runway or at taxi speed as appropriate to the circumstances.Doing touch and go's as part of multi training requires the student to do actions that would normally be prohibited for a line pilot. This to me represents negative training.[size=10px] [/size]

Here is the way T.C. thinks in their training department copied from Avcanad and written by B.P.F. T.C.'s latest addition.


Of course he thinks this way because he wrote off a twin when the gear was retracted on a touch and go before it did the go part.


The dumming down is enabled by T.C. because they no longer look for the best because the best would be a danger to the ones they now have.


What is needed in Kanada is to get rid of the need for a FTU OC and do it the way they do in the USA.

[Colonel]

This is written by a guy who couldn't get a flying
job in the private sector, so he had to go to TC?

he wrote off a twin when the gear was retracted on a touch and go

Another "growth experience", I see.

It's funny how TC Inspectors find normal landings
so challenging. 

For contrast, Rob Holland likes to touch down, do
a full roll over a friend's aircraft parked on the runway,
and then touches down again.  I'll see if I can dig
up a video.

It's odd that Rob Holland can do that with ease,
despite it not being in an SOP for any commercial
operator that won't hire TC Inspectors.

Is this the same TC Inspector that used to talk
about the spins and split-S's that he used to do
in multi-engine aircraft?  Were those supposed
to be "growth experiences" as well?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well the last flying job he had in the commercial sector that I know of was flying fire tankers out here in B.C. , to the best of my knowledge he could not get upgraded to Captain so he ended up at T.C. where he can set training standards.


Great huh?


He is one of Avcanada's most revered posters and the benchmark of professionalism over there.


You and I are a threat to pilot training because we are not P.C. and do not bend over for T.C.


Do you think B.P.F. will come over here and discuss training with us without the protection of the Avcanada mods Colonel?

[Colonel]

I somehow doubt it.

Everyone knows that if you can't get a job, TC
will hire you.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well if you are type rating a pilot in a DC3 for instance and the biggest airplane they have flown is a Navajo touch and goes save time giving them the height picture for the flare and touch down.


The bottom line is doing touch and goes in a twin is perfectly O.K. if there is a logical reason to do so.

[Colonel]

On the specific subject of t&g in a twin, I always just have to wonder what the purpose is

Generally efficiency.  In the Pitts, I can do
25 approaches and landings, doing touch
and goes, in one hour.  Lots of experience
there for the student.  And far more challenging
than a twin, I might add.

Twins are so hideously expensive - and FTU's
don't help by charging via Hobbs instead of
tach time, which is the biggest ripoff ever - I
can understand people wanting to get good
value for their very expensive multi-engine
training dollar.

Again, a 10,000 foot runway at sea level makes
this moot.  Lots of time to do stuff carefully.

Jets are even more hideously expensive than
FTU twins.  Hence touch and goes in them,
too.  A TC Inspector would heat up and melt
down the brakes doing full stop landings, but
no brakes are required for touch and goes.

I might add that even though I will never be
as good a pilot as a TC Inspector, I do touch
and goes in ex-military jets on a 4,000 foot
runway.

TC Inspectors don't bother reading the flight
manuals, but I do, and I have to comply with
this in one of the jets that I fly:

The maximum speed at which wheel brakes may be applied
with landing weight up to 4,600 kg {10,140 lbs) is 190 km/h
(102 kts).

In cases such as an aborted takeoff, when full
brakes are applied at speed higher than 100 km/h
(55 knots), the brakes must be allowed to cool
before a subsequent flight.

For an aircraft with an initial takeoff weight of up to
4,400 kg (9,710 lbs), 10 landings and braking is permitted,
with a minimum of 7 minutes interval between landings

For an aircraft with initial takeoff weight of more than
4,400 kg (9,710 lbs), continuous circuits with braking is allowed,
but a minimum of 30 minutes interval between landings