How many here practice zero / zero landings?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

No problem, I don't mind answering questions.

One thing this forum is missing is flight instructors that will answer these questions.

I wonder why we don't seem to have any here?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If you want a benchmark of the quality of flight instruction in Canada just look at Seneca and how they teach.

For instance they have a 5 knot x/wind limit for their students.

And even more incredible they teach their students to leave the gear down doing circuits on their twin engine Beech.

How much lower can one lower the bar?

Or to put it another way.

What idiot thought that teaching method up, as far as TC accepting it that is easy to understand because they really do not know any better.

[Slick Goodlin]

Does anyone have a reference on that X-wind limit?  I used to laugh at that but with more experience I can't wrap my head around just how absurd it sounds.  Surely that five knot rule must end with "...for a student's first ____ solo hours," right?  Anyone?

[Colonel]

I've run across people from Seneca:



They say it's for initial student solo, and can be increased.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Do they retract the gear after take off in the twin now when doing circuits?

[David MacRay]

I've run across people from Seneca:



They say it's for initial student solo, and can be increased.

If that is a photo I would call it a "partial" run accross.

[Colonel]

Do they retract the gear after take off in the twin now when doing circuits?

I have no idea.

A "normal" circuit that someone might fly in
a 172 is a really stupid idea in an RG aircraft.

I wrote this, a while back:

www.pittspecials.com/articles/cct_rg.htm

It works very well in both single and multi-
engine retractable-gear aircraft.  Which is
why absolutely no one in Canada teaches it.

The Flight Training Establishment in Canada
teaches pilots to land gear up.  And they do,
year after year after year after year.  Always
with great big thick checklists in the cockpit,
which AREN'T FUCKING WORKING but they're
too dense to notice that.

[Colonel]

I can't help reposting this:

[youtube][/youtube]

At 0:30 the gear warning horn comes on.

Neither pilot pays the slightest attention to it.

After almost a minute of listening to the
gear horn, they land gear up at 1:20.
GOOD JOB!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I sure hope you don't leave this forum Colonel.

As long as you are here you save me typing all these pages of advice on how to fly airplanes.

Your multi engine advice is awesome, so few pilots use G loads to scrub speed because they were not taught how to fly, they were taught how to operate an airplane on a monkey see monkey do method by instructor monkeys.

Oooohhh...that is going to get me in trouble. ;D

[Rookie Pilot]

Do they retract the gear after take off in the twin now when doing circuits?

I have no idea.

A "normal" circuit that someone might fly in
a 172 is a really stupid idea in an RG aircraft.

I wrote this, a while back:

www.pittspecials.com/articles/cct_rg.htm

It works very well in both single and multi-
engine retractable-gear aircraft.  Which is
why absolutely no one in Canada teaches it.

The Flight Training Establishment in Canada
teaches pilots to land gear up.  And they do,
year after year after year after year.  Always
with great big thick checklists in the cockpit,
which AREN'T FUCKING WORKING but they're
too dense to notice that.

I essentially approach to land this way as described. I though drop the gear though well outside the circuit, because at ZBA, dropping over terrain to the west, have to drop altitude quickly to the circuit. I have flaps 10 and gear down before dropping over the escarpment, which gives me 110 -115 knots without touching power, and  I don't then speed up too much and run over a 152.    Nice, happy warm engine, especially in winter. Slow down to 130 or so,  flaps 10, slows me a bit more, then gear down. Want my gear doors very happy.


I am curious about gear ups. There is no way, even  without looking at the gear or inidcators, I could mistake power, trim and airspeed configuration for Gear up vs down. Big difference due to the drag, at least in my plane.


As you say, can't go down and slow down. On a normal descent from altitude, in smoother air, even with power pulled back a little, I'm always well in the yellow arc. No way that happens with gear down.