W&B before " EVERY " flighht?

[CpnCrunch]

This forum is a good place to talk aviation however we seem to be degenerating into arguing with people who really don't seem to have a clue about what flying is really about.


So lets just end this conversation before it really degenerates.

Amen to that. I couldn't agree more.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Someone here mentioned a flight school in S. Ont. that won't give you the keys to a 152 or a 172 without you filling out an accurate W&B.


How about if you are a licensed pilot just wanting to rent for a solo local flight?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Well I guess we still live in a country where the customer decides who they deal with.


To ask a licensed experienced pilot to fill out a W&B on a Cessna 172 for a solo flight is just plain insulting the intelligence of the customer.


But hey it is their business and they can operate it any way they want no matter how stupid their rules are.

[Rookie Pilot]

Well I guess we still live in a country where the customer decides who they deal with.


To ask a licensed experienced pilot to fill out a W&B on a Cessna 172 for a solo flight is just plain insulting the intelligence of the customer.


But hey it is their business and they can operate it any way they want no matter how stupid their rules are.

I rented for awhile and yes there is a severe dumbing down. I continued to rent from this school as I liked the fleet. When I asked I was regaled with stories of horrible renters, which I have little issue believing, seeing the way some take care of their own equipment.


I suppose the bigger the school the more controls go in, too.


I'm not complaining too too much as I know it's a skinny business. Personally I would not rent my plane for twice what an FTU rental goes for.

[Rookie Pilot]

There is a rather shocking difference for the unprepared I'd imagine between a winter sea level TO, half tanks and the pilot, and a summer Montana TO at GW and + 30.


In my plane the first one results in initial 1200 FPM climb, second, more like 3-400 at a speed fast enough to keep the engine cool.

[Liquid Charlie]

Ironically the canadian aviation industry has operated a lot longer without w/b being calculated than with. When I started flying all aircraft had standard loads and pilots and fuel weighted nothing. The first 5 years of my career I had no idea what the gross weight was on any aircraft I flew. As for the balance on floats it was a no brainer and on skis we loaded basically the same as floats. Even when I started on DC3 and we never calculated a balance, it was likely the first aeroplane I ever flew where I knew what the weight limitations were - a Beech 18 wasn't even legal for the pilot to sit in it if you had mains and 3 tenths in the nose but 2200 lbs went in the back. Floats were a little better but not by much 2200 lbs for any trip from 10 miles to 500 miles. The aircraft didn't crash from being overloaded it was usually wx that was the killer and in the case of the beech foolish pilots who tried to fly on one instead of picking a lake. The aircraft for the most part were all overloaded and no balance calculated. Things have changed for the most part and that's a good thing but over loaded does not necessarily mean doom and disaster. As is with all accidents there are a set of circumstances that when lined up in that one bad order creates the disaster. Sticking to the rules is just a good way of removing some of those factors.

[Cdnpilot77]

Someone here mentioned a flight school in S. Ont. that won't give you the keys to a 152 or a 172 without you filling out an accurate W&B.


How about if you are a licensed pilot just wanting to rent for a solo local flight?

Nope...do the full calculations on paper and plot your points on the graph.

[Colonel]

arguing with people who really don't seem to have a clue about what flying is really about.

What do you expect from a PPL with 100 hrs
that flies a 150 a few hours a year?

Hell, he isn't even a Canadian - lecturing pilots
with 100, 200 or 300 times his experience, on
a Canadian aviation website.

Back on topic - no one cares about the physics,
and whether or not you crash or die.

It's all about how sanctimonious you can be
about paper.

Of course you can safely fly an aircraft over
max legal gross.  Good example is the mid-70's
172M.  Pretty exotic aircraft, the 172.  Not
many people have flown it, not many people
know much about it.

Anyways the 172M has 40 degrees of flap.
If you buy a piece of paper and promise to
never use more than 30 flap, you can legally
up the max gross by 150 lbs.

I am not making this up.  Google "stc sa2196ce"

[Rookie Pilot]

WB might be more about the c of g location, which I would think is a much greater hazard on some AC, than a few pounds OW.  Some AC it is easy, like a bonanza, to get in trouble loading beyond aft limits, affecting controllability.

[CpnCrunch]

What do you expect from a PPL with 100 hrs
that flies a 150 a few hours a year?

Hell, he isn't even a Canadian - lecturing pilots
with 100, 200 or 300 times his experience, on
a Canadian aviation website.

Still pulling ridiculous untrue bullshit out of your ass? You couldn't possibly even know my nationality/ratings/hours because I have never shared any of that info with you or with avcanada. It sounds like you've put together a few things I've said on avcanada and come up with your own idea of who I am, which seems to be incorrect on all counts.


It's a bit sad that instead of using logical arguments you have to resort to ad hominem attacks and belitting people whenever you disagree with someone or whenever you've lost the plot in an argument.


I'd suggest you take Chuck's advice and stop before this thread goes off the rails and more than it has.


Back on topic: W+B is all pretty basic physics. Nothing magical happens when you go over the max gross weight, but at some point you won't be able to maintain altitude, might not be able to take off, you might structurally damage the aircraft, etc. Going over max gross *and* not understanding those points and ending up in an accident because of it isn't very smart, and is why we have all this ridiculous bullshit from FTUs.