RV Cold Starts

Flying Tips and Advice from The Colonel!
Squaretail
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:21 pm
Location: Group W Bench

Colonel wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:50 pm
The world seems full of phonies, pretending to be something they are not.

What’s wrong with being who you are?
Because they want to be super aviators, and assume that being a super aviator is doing as much as you can to be like who you perceive to be the super-est aviators, in this case airline pilots.

Its like they say: "Be yourself, unless you can be Chuck Norris, then be Chuck Norris."


The details of my life are quite inconsequential...
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Colonel
Posts: 2564
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
Location: Over The Runway

Heh. I don't want to be Chuck Norris. He's 82!!

Honestly, there is no one in the world I would "trade" with.

Even Elon Musk. I have better hair.
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Slick Goodlin
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 am

Speaking of oil pressure, I ain’t got none on the Champ. Eff. I was hoping the orifice in the line to the gauge had a little trash in it but no bueno.

Anyone sent a Continental case out to have the oil pump cavity filled and remachined lately?
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Colonel
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A bit more diagnosis might help.

I presume that if you entirely disconnect the oil pressure line from the engine and crank with the plugs out, no oil squirts out?

If that is the case, there are several possibilities

- blockage between the pump and the pressure boss
- internal pump failure
- blockage on the inlet side of the pump

I would look closely at door number 3 above. You would be amazed what you can find inside the engine.
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Slick Goodlin
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 am

I strongly suspect pump failure because I know they’re apt to do that but I’m going to check the regulator spring and stand pipe in the tank because they’re a lot easier to do. The oil pressure sense line has been checked (it’s fine) and the line orifices checked for trash (also fine).

Realistically I think it’s probably time to send the case to a company like DivCo for welding and re-machining of the oil pump cavity but then it’ll be almost too nice for the plane.
Big Pistons Forever
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:05 pm

Oil pumps can definitely fail. I had one fail n flight ( Continental 0 200). The fail mode started with one tooth on the drive gear breaking off. This caused the gear to skip which destroyed the rest of the gears until there was nothing left to turn the pump.

Fortunately for me I was paying attention to the engine gauges and noticed the oil pressure starting to drop on the climb out and was able to get back to the runway before the engine seized
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Colonel
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How many years / hours on that engine, BPF?

I'm really surprised an AD didn't result if that failure mode is so common on four-banger Continentals. Losing an oil pump is serious business!
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Big Pistons Forever
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:05 pm

Engine was about half time. It was torn down and the broken bits analyzed. The gear had a manufacturing defect, but in the end it was decided it was a one off event and AFAIK no other action was taken.

It still sucked because it was an expensive early overhaul.

There have certainly been lots of issues with oil pumps on Lycomings but I have never heard of another Continental that had oil pump problems
JW Scud
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:25 pm

Slick Goodlin wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:29 pm
Funny, I was chatting about the care and feeding of a small Lycoming just a few days ago. I don’t own one, but he does and he flies a good bit. He’s a pretty clever guy and one not afraid to track down the right people to help him better understand how to get the most out of his airplane and engine. Imagine my surprise when he said that he’d heard there’s such a thing as too little RPM immediately after start. The idea being that the very lowest RPM delays oil delivery up to the cam and lifters.
I think it depends on the engine model. The O-300 I used to fly had splash lubrication from the crankshaft journals(in addition to oil pump). Therefore, too low rpm equals not enough splash. In addition, cold oil doesn’t splash as well as warm oil. Therefore, when in the cooler oil temp range( but above the pre-heat range), it was actually more important to get to that higher rpm range(which is still a relatively low overall rpm). Apparently O-300 cylinders are not choked(straight barrels).

One would get their oil pressure and go up to 1200 rpm for warm-up and generator charging. From the info I was able to accumulate through searching around, 1200 slings more oil up into the piston area which is warmer and therefore warms the oil faster.

800 rpm is the minimum for prolonged low power as it allows continuous, sufficient lubrication. Idle rpm on the ground is allowed of course but should not be prolonged(such as more than a minute) because 800 some lubricated parts are not being replenished sufficiently.
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Colonel
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Where do Lycoming and Continental document this critical minimum RPM requirement?

I’ve seen guidance for overspeed but any pointers to this minimum idle RPM requirement for windage would be appreciated.

Moment of irony- everyone else in the world tries to minimize windage. If windage is critical, why doesn’t everyone run max oil level?

Still waiting to hear back how low RPM doesn’t generate enough oil pressure. I’m seeing 80 psi at 500 RPM. Is that not enough?
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