Hi guys
I have been lurking for a while on avcanada but never felt like I fit in. I am LIKING what I am seeing here 8) so I am all in ! ;D
I sure won't miss reading that BPF guy. Why does he argue with the BIG DOG's like Chuck, the Colonel and Strega. Doesn't he realize those guys know everything ????????? yet he goes on and on with his opinion and advice like he should actually be listened to???????
Anyway you guys have got absolutely everything figured out, I want to be just like you !
Because I can and its fun! :)
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Chuck Ellsworth
Great first post superstar.
One of the reasons the industry needs people like us is so others can get checked out on airplanes like the Piper PA20 that do not have brakes on the right hand side.
If BPF was the only instructor in Canada how would people get proper check outs in airplanes like that?
Are you also afraid to do dual in them like BPF is?
One of the reasons the industry needs people like us is so others can get checked out on airplanes like the Piper PA20 that do not have brakes on the right hand side.
If BPF was the only instructor in Canada how would people get proper check outs in airplanes like that?
Are you also afraid to do dual in them like BPF is?
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Chuck Ellsworth
A PA 20 is a four place high wing singe engine tail wheel airplane made by Piper and is caller a Pacer.
It is one of Pipers best airplanes and a joy to fly.
Piper re-designed it by putting a nose wheel on it to make it easier to fly and called it the Tri- Pacer.
The Tri Pacer was designed so pilots like BPF would not be afraid of losing control of it on the runway.
Any other questions I can help you with Superstar?
It is one of Pipers best airplanes and a joy to fly.
Piper re-designed it by putting a nose wheel on it to make it easier to fly and called it the Tri- Pacer.
The Tri Pacer was designed so pilots like BPF would not be afraid of losing control of it on the runway.
Any other questions I can help you with Superstar?
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Chuck Ellsworth
Could be Colonel, I can only try and imagine how badly he would like to be with us, even if it means hiding behind a layer of anonymity.
However I doubt he is this one.
However I doubt he is this one.
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Class 4 Superstar
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:39 pm
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=198.msg560#msg560 date=1433532426]
A PA 20 is a four place high wing singe engine tail wheel airplane made by Piper and is caller a Pacer.
It is one of Pipers best airplanes and a joy to fly.
Piper re-designed it by putting a nose wheel on it to make it easier to fly and called it the Tri- Pacer.
The Tri Pacer was designed so pilots like BPF would not be afraid of losing control of it on the runway.
Any other questions I can help you with Superstar?
[/quote]
You know I am not real interested in those old airplanes, me I want to look to the future. I am about to start my MEIFR and the outfit I am looking at has one of those Diamond DA42 twins. That is one awesome looking airplane and I can't wait to get my hands on that electronic instrument panel 8)
A PA 20 is a four place high wing singe engine tail wheel airplane made by Piper and is caller a Pacer.
It is one of Pipers best airplanes and a joy to fly.
Piper re-designed it by putting a nose wheel on it to make it easier to fly and called it the Tri- Pacer.
The Tri Pacer was designed so pilots like BPF would not be afraid of losing control of it on the runway.
Any other questions I can help you with Superstar?
[/quote]
You know I am not real interested in those old airplanes, me I want to look to the future. I am about to start my MEIFR and the outfit I am looking at has one of those Diamond DA42 twins. That is one awesome looking airplane and I can't wait to get my hands on that electronic instrument panel 8)
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Chuck Ellsworth
[quote]You know I am not real interested in those old airplanes, me I want to look to the future. I am about to start my MEIFR and the outfit I am looking at has one of those Diamond DA42 twins. That is one awesome looking airplane and I can't wait to get my hands on that electronic instrument panel 8)[/quote]
Class 4 Superstar I post here because I still have a faint hope that I can somehow help young pilots become aviators, not mechanical drones looking for the easy way to fly aircraft, because at this point in time the easy way is still not really fully operational.
For sure the future will be children of the magenta line and pushing buttons on a FMS, actually the FMS will soon be yesterdays keyboard as we design more advanced airplane operations systems to replace the pilot.
However at the present time airplanes still have controls in them that the pilot can use to bypass the automatics and we are finding that far to many pilots just are not capable of figuring out how to use those controls.
When I worked at Airbus in their flight test department in Toulouse the very first thing they told me was the goal they were seeking was to design an airplane that a pilot could not wreck.
I am well aware of the attraction of the new modern magic machines for young pilots.
However at this point in time we still should be able to hand fly any machine we are in....and that is where an airplane like a PA20 is very hard to beat as a hands and feet trainer.
I hope you read what I am saying and think about it in that context.
Getting sucked into thinking that you do not need to be as competent as possible in hand flying by instructors who are not confident enough to train on a basic light airplane like the PA20 is really sad.
Really, really fucking sad.
Class 4 Superstar I post here because I still have a faint hope that I can somehow help young pilots become aviators, not mechanical drones looking for the easy way to fly aircraft, because at this point in time the easy way is still not really fully operational.
For sure the future will be children of the magenta line and pushing buttons on a FMS, actually the FMS will soon be yesterdays keyboard as we design more advanced airplane operations systems to replace the pilot.
However at the present time airplanes still have controls in them that the pilot can use to bypass the automatics and we are finding that far to many pilots just are not capable of figuring out how to use those controls.
When I worked at Airbus in their flight test department in Toulouse the very first thing they told me was the goal they were seeking was to design an airplane that a pilot could not wreck.
I am well aware of the attraction of the new modern magic machines for young pilots.
However at this point in time we still should be able to hand fly any machine we are in....and that is where an airplane like a PA20 is very hard to beat as a hands and feet trainer.
I hope you read what I am saying and think about it in that context.
Getting sucked into thinking that you do not need to be as competent as possible in hand flying by instructors who are not confident enough to train on a basic light airplane like the PA20 is really sad.
Really, really fucking sad.
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HiFlyChick
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 9:54 pm
With regards to instructing standards, I agree that it doesn't make sense for ab initio training to be taught as if everyone is going to be a professional pilot, however, the big advantage with having someone who has worked in the industry is for the higher ratings like multi or IFR because they will have real world experience (more important for IFR). Although some people who are not professional pilots will indeed do flying in IMC, I think most guys instructing IFR probably don't have the money (or inclination) to go around doing a lot of flying for fun in hard IMC. Not necessarily true for everyone, but I think probably a fairly accurate description of most instructors who have done nothing but instruct.
For the ab initio stuff, I think there's still no beating the guys that have no aspirations to go to the airlines but just instruct for fun and/or in their spare time. They're not going to make recommendations that their students fly twins when singles will do, etc (which sadly, I've seen a number of times before, including an instructor pushing a friend of mine towards MIFR when they really wanted to just get the SIFR, at least to start).
Learning to fly is like being in elementary school and learning to do math - they don't give you calculators to start with, and it's not a great idea to have too many fancy gadgets to start with when you're learning to fly. Not only with regards to basic flying skills, as Chuck has said, but basic navigation skills as well.
I can still recall when my instructor decided I was paying too much attention to my instruments during my PPL, he hauled out these little suction cup circles and started sticking them over everything. My first inclination was to panic - "But I need my airspeed indicator - what if I stall?!" but he soon taught me that the whole world outside was my attitude indicator, and that I could easily estimate my airspeed (i.e. fast or slow) based on power and attitude.
Having said that, once you've mastered the basics, you should eventually learn all the tools that you have at your disposal, but not before you have indeed mastered the basics....
For the ab initio stuff, I think there's still no beating the guys that have no aspirations to go to the airlines but just instruct for fun and/or in their spare time. They're not going to make recommendations that their students fly twins when singles will do, etc (which sadly, I've seen a number of times before, including an instructor pushing a friend of mine towards MIFR when they really wanted to just get the SIFR, at least to start).
Learning to fly is like being in elementary school and learning to do math - they don't give you calculators to start with, and it's not a great idea to have too many fancy gadgets to start with when you're learning to fly. Not only with regards to basic flying skills, as Chuck has said, but basic navigation skills as well.
I can still recall when my instructor decided I was paying too much attention to my instruments during my PPL, he hauled out these little suction cup circles and started sticking them over everything. My first inclination was to panic - "But I need my airspeed indicator - what if I stall?!" but he soon taught me that the whole world outside was my attitude indicator, and that I could easily estimate my airspeed (i.e. fast or slow) based on power and attitude.
Having said that, once you've mastered the basics, you should eventually learn all the tools that you have at your disposal, but not before you have indeed mastered the basics....
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HiFlyChick
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 9:54 pm
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=198.msg572#msg572 date=1433637209]
...However at this point in time we still should be able to hand fly any machine we are in....and that is where an airplane like a PA20 is very hard to beat as a hands and feet trainer....
[/quote]
I was gonna say a C150/152, Chuck, but only because I did my initial training on a 150 and so have a soft spot for it in my heart :)
Also, you can beat the crap out of it (i.e. let the student land it even early in their training) and it will still take it and not break.
I've not had the opportunity to fly a PA-20 - does it handle similar to a C150 or 152, do you know?
...However at this point in time we still should be able to hand fly any machine we are in....and that is where an airplane like a PA20 is very hard to beat as a hands and feet trainer....
[/quote]
I was gonna say a C150/152, Chuck, but only because I did my initial training on a 150 and so have a soft spot for it in my heart :)
Also, you can beat the crap out of it (i.e. let the student land it even early in their training) and it will still take it and not break.
I've not had the opportunity to fly a PA-20 - does it handle similar to a C150 or 152, do you know?
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