Air France 447: after pitot iced up, four bars holds
the stick all the way back for 3.5 minutes until impact
killing everyone on board.
Colgan 3407: after pilot stalls due to in attention to
airspeed, holds the control column all the way back,
snap rolling into the ground, killing everyone on board.
My friend in Florida, that crashed in a Citabria - I thought
it was a broken wooden spar - was seriously injured by
some dickwad CPL that froze with the stick all the way
back.
Would you guys stop doing that, please? I have seen this
kind of homicidal behavior before myself.
Try not to be so frightened of high alpha. Please get some
stall and spin training before you go solo. Get upside down
a few times. Doesn’t seem to permanently damage military pilots.
Please Get Some Decent Flight Training
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John Swallow
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm
Try not to be so frightened of high alpha.
Please get some stall and spin training before you go solo.
Get upside down a few times.
Doesn’t seem to permanently damage military pilots.
Can't disagree with that...
Please get some stall and spin training before you go solo.
Get upside down a few times.
Doesn’t seem to permanently damage military pilots.
Can't disagree with that...
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=10210.msg29391#msg29391 date=1574459195]
Colgan 3407: after pilot stalls due to in attention to
airspeed, holds the control column all the way back,
snap rolling into the ground, killing everyone on board.
[/quote]
I’ve always kind of wondered if the obsession with tailplane icing at the time played a part too. For a few years before this accident it seemed like NASA was convinced the only reason airplanes crashed was ice on the tail and they weren’t afraid to tell you. They had found that tail stalls happened most often on their simulated approaches in icing during flap extension and that the recovery was to yank back on the yoke and if practical raise flaps one step. Guess what Colgan did...
Of course none of this excuses anything nor does it bring back a Q full of dead people but to me at least it illustrates a teacher’s responsibility to recognize the relative importance of the things they emphasize.
Colgan 3407: after pilot stalls due to in attention to
airspeed, holds the control column all the way back,
snap rolling into the ground, killing everyone on board.
[/quote]
I’ve always kind of wondered if the obsession with tailplane icing at the time played a part too. For a few years before this accident it seemed like NASA was convinced the only reason airplanes crashed was ice on the tail and they weren’t afraid to tell you. They had found that tail stalls happened most often on their simulated approaches in icing during flap extension and that the recovery was to yank back on the yoke and if practical raise flaps one step. Guess what Colgan did...
Of course none of this excuses anything nor does it bring back a Q full of dead people but to me at least it illustrates a teacher’s responsibility to recognize the relative importance of the things they emphasize.
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]what Colgan did...[/quote]
The four bars tried to distract everyone, with fatigue - the usual excuse -
and then tailplane icing.
When that -8 stalled, his frontal lobes were not ahead of the airplane. In
fact, he was behind it, ignoring the airspeed as it decreased.
No one likes to mention it, but he was a weak pilot. He failed a whole bunch
of checkrides. When that -8 stalled, his lizard brain took over and the stick came
all the way back. Despite being incredibly tired, we are told, he suddenly
developed superhuman strength (WTF?) and pulled back so hard he did +2G
snap rolls left and right before impact.
He wasn't developing theories about tailplane icing. He was scared shitless, and
he died, pulling the control column as hard as he could, because he wanted to go UP.
I know four bars tell me it's a waste of time, but if you spend a few years as an
aerobatic instructor, you see how many, many people react under life-threatening
stress. For some people, it's very bad.
It's not pretty. [u]Their instincts are wrong.[/u] You have to spend the time, to teach
them new instincts. Just like with tailwheel flying, I had to teach nosewheel
pilots new instincts, with their feet. It takes time.
And in today's world of instant gratification, no one wants to spend any time
on anything worthwhile. That's ok, live the Instagram dream, but every once
in a while, you will pay a terrible price for your laziness.
Pro-tip for instructors: please teach high alpha without resorting to the Transport
Canada-approved sky-high pitch attitudes. If you teach it that way, you will teach
your students that without ridiculous pitch attitudes, the aircraft will not stall, and
that is a horrible lesson to teach, ok? I'm not allowed to hold an instructor rating
in Canada, any more, but think about that.
The four bars tried to distract everyone, with fatigue - the usual excuse -
and then tailplane icing.
When that -8 stalled, his frontal lobes were not ahead of the airplane. In
fact, he was behind it, ignoring the airspeed as it decreased.
No one likes to mention it, but he was a weak pilot. He failed a whole bunch
of checkrides. When that -8 stalled, his lizard brain took over and the stick came
all the way back. Despite being incredibly tired, we are told, he suddenly
developed superhuman strength (WTF?) and pulled back so hard he did +2G
snap rolls left and right before impact.
He wasn't developing theories about tailplane icing. He was scared shitless, and
he died, pulling the control column as hard as he could, because he wanted to go UP.
I know four bars tell me it's a waste of time, but if you spend a few years as an
aerobatic instructor, you see how many, many people react under life-threatening
stress. For some people, it's very bad.
It's not pretty. [u]Their instincts are wrong.[/u] You have to spend the time, to teach
them new instincts. Just like with tailwheel flying, I had to teach nosewheel
pilots new instincts, with their feet. It takes time.
And in today's world of instant gratification, no one wants to spend any time
on anything worthwhile. That's ok, live the Instagram dream, but every once
in a while, you will pay a terrible price for your laziness.
Pro-tip for instructors: please teach high alpha without resorting to the Transport
Canada-approved sky-high pitch attitudes. If you teach it that way, you will teach
your students that without ridiculous pitch attitudes, the aircraft will not stall, and
that is a horrible lesson to teach, ok? I'm not allowed to hold an instructor rating
in Canada, any more, but think about that.
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]Notably, the Boeing 757, which by its MTOW falls into Large category, is considered Heavy for purposes of separation because of a number of incidents where smaller aircraft lost control (with some crashing) while following too closely behind a 757[/quote]
It's important to remember as a pilot, that nothing bad will ever happen to you.
[img]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0669/ ... nt_a04.png[/img]
[quote]During the 1990s, a series of rudder issues on Boeing 737 aircraft resulted in multiple incidents. In two separate accidents, pilots lost control of their Boeing 737 aircraft due to a sudden and unexpected movement of the rudder, and the resulting crashes killed everyone aboard. A total of 157 people aboard the two aircraft were killed.
The National Transportation Safety Board ultimately determined that the accidents and incidents were the result of a design flaw ... the Federal Aviation Administration ordered repairs for all Boeing 737 aircraft in service.[/quote]
It's important to remember as a pilot, that nothing bad will ever happen to you.
[img]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0669/ ... nt_a04.png[/img]
[quote]During the 1990s, a series of rudder issues on Boeing 737 aircraft resulted in multiple incidents. In two separate accidents, pilots lost control of their Boeing 737 aircraft due to a sudden and unexpected movement of the rudder, and the resulting crashes killed everyone aboard. A total of 157 people aboard the two aircraft were killed.
The National Transportation Safety Board ultimately determined that the accidents and incidents were the result of a design flaw ... the Federal Aviation Administration ordered repairs for all Boeing 737 aircraft in service.[/quote]
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