True Safety....or Revenue?

[Rookie Pilot]

Is completion of that form -- rote tasks -- what is defined as an experienced pilot these days?


I assume you would hire and train instructors so they are experienced enough to conduct training flights safely.


If that is so -- why the need for such a form? Does  a class 4 know how to think, make decisions, analyse the flying capabilities of others?


I note your comments on internet posters. The difference between me, and many class 4's I've met, is while a typical class 4 working in the FTU environment, would declare themselves as "experienced", I don't characterize myself that way, even though I'd imagine I have more real world experience than most class 4's. You probably disagree. Circuits certainly equal real world experience.


I get that renters need to be vetted, Ect etc.  I just find this a incredibly mindless way of doing it. You would think during an instructor rating, pilots are taught how to THINK.  If not why are they TEACHING others?


You talk about "scale". Is that what leads to excellence in flight instruction? Mass amounts of aircraft, instructors, where you don't even know what's happening personally, and forms are required?


I don't think factory based instruction is a good thing. But that's me. I don't know the business. Clearly.

[Slick Goodlin]

[quote author=Shiny link=topic=7506.msg20722#msg20722 date=1511214058]
[quote]"We did our part, it's not our fault that the rules were broken."


A lot of these checkouts and extra fluff are built on a fear of consequence and as such are a somewhat lame attempt at covering their asses.[/quote]

From a strictly revenue generating position, or at least loss prevention position, unless you really know the consequences of not "covering your ass" then I don't believe you can dismiss them out of hand. Forgetting about he financial losses regulatory action can incur - and that's before you get to potential fines - the loss of revenue on an aircraft for even a short period of time can be a fatal blow to a small operation.[/quote]


I completely understand the consequences and I do what I can to mitigate the risks.  The emphasis was that it's a [i]lame[/i] way to do it.  There are other ways to address trans-border rental flights and ones that I believe hold better value both to the student and to the school.  Having an arbitrary "checkout" is pretty lowest-common-denominator for all involved and in a lot of cases is little more than paper.


[quote]I could go on, but you guys are all experts.[/quote]
Not me, I'm just careful.

[Rookie Pilot]

Last comment.


If flight schools were really focused on safety, I think they would aim to pair pilots up for mentoring purposes. Realizing that, yes, instructors bring experience of a certain kind to the table. Experienced pilots, flying long, complex CC's, bring another kind of experience to the table, not common in lower time instructors.


We had an accident over this area a year or so ago. 2 or 3 airplanes, all with instructors and student pilots, on an experience building trip, returning from the US to the GTA.  Proceeded, at night, into horrible weather, in poorly equipped aircraft (no nexrad, or other tools, and I don't think they were IFR rated in any event)


They were instructors, but clearly had no experience, nor judgement, with weather. 


I wouldn't have proceeded on that flight, being well equipped and reasonably IFR experienced.  No way, and at night, suicide.


One of those planes didn't make it.  2 young fatalities. 


Now you may think I post to uselessly give flight schools a hard time. But this accident made me angry, as there was inherent pressure to get the aircraft back. The dirty side of the business, Shiny. 


IMO, the GM or CFI of that school should have faced charges.  Set an example. Not a good scenario. 


Here's the accident thread. 
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... herine%27s

[Rookie Pilot]

Lol.  Bladder aside, Weather and complex airspace can make a long trip different than a 30 mile hop.


No, mentors are not abundant. The wise aspiring pilot would do well to seek one out. I have mentors in various areas of my life, not just flying, and they are essential for success in life. Seeking mentors, requires burying ones pride, something many folks find difficult.



I was thinking when I wrote, I did a couple of IFR trips, to the US,  in weather, some at night,  right seating another pilot with a couple thousand hours and a cautious attitude, before I did my rating and a bunch of US trips.  Helped me immensely, even just with flight task management, weather monitoring,  how to file, Ect...how to actually manage the theory I'd learned.


I've been in a few weather scenarios that got rather busy with deviations etc, I think added seasoning like I received helps one keep cool and manage flights -- and more importantly when not to fly -- better.


Ie at my level I do not mix night and IMC flight.  Risk shoots way up, IMO, single pilot.  Time, conversations  with mentors, helped me establish invaluable rules for my own flying, which every pilot flying beyond the patch, should really do. 


Highly recommended.

[Rookie Pilot]

[quote author=Shiny link=topic=7506.msg20732#msg20732 date=1511231303]

Somehow I've managed to survive all this without a mentor.
[/quote]


And there is the difference between us.


I owe a ton of my success in life to the wisdom of my mentors.

[Colonel]

People learn differently, and that's ok.  Like Shiny, I am almost entirely
self-taught.

In aviation, I taught myself instrument flying, I did my ATPL on my
own, and after some one flight of spin training, taught myself aerobatics,
formation, formation aerobatics, low-altitude aerobatics, negative G
formation, etc.  No one around to teach me any of that stuff.  I had
to develop my own knowledge and procedures.

Talking to ex-Snowbirds, I know they had exactly the same experience
as I did with negative G formation.  No one to teach it, so you learned
it on your own.

No one around to check me out in unusual, rare aircraft.  Had to
teach myself how to do that.  There are plenty of blowhards in
aviation that like to talk, but few are up for the moment.

Same thing with my engineering.  I only recall a tiny fraction of what
I learned as an under-grad, but I learned [i]how to learn[/i].

These days I get 5,000 page PDF's tossed at me which I have to read
and get up to speed on their content in a few minutes.  The trick is
to figure out what is important, and isn't important.  Learn to scan
for significant key words in the content.

It frustrates me that people don't use Google more.  Most questions
they ask have been asked 10,000 times before (in the last week!)
so if you can put a few words into a search engine, you can probably
find what you're looking for.

[Colonel]

One tiny sliver of aviation that no one taught me about:

Having multiple aircraft on the runway at the same time.

Formation taxi, takeoff and landing procedures, with
difficulty compounded with tailwheel aircraft that are
blind forward.

Lots of stuff there to kill you if you don't teach yourself
fast enough.  No mentor to sit beside you and tell you
what's important, and what isn't - let alone tell you
what to do.

Civilian ATC is continually trying to kill us as we fly
formation - they just don't understand.  I have to
patiently explain to them that today is not a good
day for us to die, and we cannot do what they ask.

"Unable"