Oh my local flight school makes me mad sometimes....
I went in yesterday to inquire about upgrading my license and talk to the owner of the school (who is the Class 1, as well as examiner for the area. The only game in town.. I did my PPL here 5 years ago, and used them for much of the post PPL training I have received. The instructors who did the training are long gone, but I figured I had a good chance of the class one signing me off for the dual I flew with them....
anyway... my rant:
Talking to the class 1, he asks me about my 300 mile x-country. I tell him I have many x-country trips under my belt. I have flown my own airplane everywhere between Halifax to Tofino, and London, On to Tuktouktuk, NWT. Almost every page in my logbook since PPL will have a qualifying cross country flight in it..
"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane" he proceeds to tell me..... I immediately lose interested in dealing with this man again.
Some of my flights are alone, and I know if this [i]was[/i] I requirement, I could show it. But I cannot see anywhere that says I have to be the sole occupant for the 300mile x-country...
grrr. as if $225/hr for a 172 isn't bad enough....
CPL and Prior Dual Time
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DeflectionShot
[quote]
Talking to the class 1, he asks me about my 300 mile x-country. I tell him I have many x-country trips under my belt. I have flown my own airplane everywhere between Halifax to Tofino, and London, On to Tuktouktuk, NWT. Almost every page in my logbook since PPL will have a qualifying cross country flight in it..
"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane" he proceeds to tell me..... I immediately lose interested in dealing with this man again.
Some of my flights are alone, and I know if this [i]was[/i] I requirement, I could show it. But I cannot see anywhere that says I have to be the sole occupant for the 300mile x-country...[/quote]
Sounds typical. My FTU can't seem to get its head around counting previous dual toward a CPL either. I think you need to see most FTUs as Soviet-era tourism operators in the Eastern Bloc filled full of demoralized and miserable employees who are just going through the motions and can't wait to get back to the vodka bottle.
I'm no expert in the CARS but I do recall a lot of CPL students sharing time on the 300X cross-countries.
Talking to the class 1, he asks me about my 300 mile x-country. I tell him I have many x-country trips under my belt. I have flown my own airplane everywhere between Halifax to Tofino, and London, On to Tuktouktuk, NWT. Almost every page in my logbook since PPL will have a qualifying cross country flight in it..
"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane" he proceeds to tell me..... I immediately lose interested in dealing with this man again.
Some of my flights are alone, and I know if this [i]was[/i] I requirement, I could show it. But I cannot see anywhere that says I have to be the sole occupant for the 300mile x-country...[/quote]
Sounds typical. My FTU can't seem to get its head around counting previous dual toward a CPL either. I think you need to see most FTUs as Soviet-era tourism operators in the Eastern Bloc filled full of demoralized and miserable employees who are just going through the motions and can't wait to get back to the vodka bottle.
I'm no expert in the CARS but I do recall a lot of CPL students sharing time on the 300X cross-countries.
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane"[/quote]
Total bullshit. That's not what the CARs or the AP
manual say. I was an instructor (class 1 and class
1 aerobatic) for 25 years, and an AP for 20.
Here in Ontario Region, the CPL candidates fly
the 300nm x/c together. One logs it out, one logs
it back. I don't like it, but TC says the CARs do
not require the 300nm CPL x/c to be solo - just
logged as PIC.
Some weak, wealthy students bring their instructor
along as a coach for the 300nm x/c, and the student
pays the instructor but logs PIC. TC has no problem
with that, either.
Print this off and hand it to your class 1 FTU asshole.
Total bullshit. That's not what the CARs or the AP
manual say. I was an instructor (class 1 and class
1 aerobatic) for 25 years, and an AP for 20.
Here in Ontario Region, the CPL candidates fly
the 300nm x/c together. One logs it out, one logs
it back. I don't like it, but TC says the CARs do
not require the 300nm CPL x/c to be solo - just
logged as PIC.
Some weak, wealthy students bring their instructor
along as a coach for the 300nm x/c, and the student
pays the instructor but logs PIC. TC has no problem
with that, either.
Print this off and hand it to your class 1 FTU asshole.
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]My FTU can't seem to get its head around counting previous dual toward a CPL[/quote]
Typical FTU bullshit.
You get a night rating, it counts towards CPL dual.
You get an instrument rating, it counts towards CPL dual.
Too bad they can't spot the pattern.
I have given tailwheel, multi, aerobatic, formation,
type conversion - you name it - dual to PPL's and
it all went into the PTR for CPL dual.
In no possible way did I contravene either the
letter or the spirit of the CARs.
ANY dual from a flight instructor after the issuance of
the PPL counts towards the CPL dual requirement, unless
the flight instructor asserts that he's an idiot and didn't
teach you anything. If so, get it in writing.
What dicks.
When I gave dual to CPL's, as a class 1, of course it
was dual towards the class 4 instructor rating, and into
the PTR it went.
Typical FTU bullshit.
You get a night rating, it counts towards CPL dual.
You get an instrument rating, it counts towards CPL dual.
Too bad they can't spot the pattern.
I have given tailwheel, multi, aerobatic, formation,
type conversion - you name it - dual to PPL's and
it all went into the PTR for CPL dual.
In no possible way did I contravene either the
letter or the spirit of the CARs.
ANY dual from a flight instructor after the issuance of
the PPL counts towards the CPL dual requirement, unless
the flight instructor asserts that he's an idiot and didn't
teach you anything. If so, get it in writing.
What dicks.
When I gave dual to CPL's, as a class 1, of course it
was dual towards the class 4 instructor rating, and into
the PTR it went.
-
mcrit
[quote author=dirtdr link=topic=6727.msg18275#msg18275 date=1500648746]
"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane" he proceeds to tell me..... I immediately lose interested in dealing with this man
[/quote]
Your CFI is wrong. The only requirement is that you are pilot in command. It is common practice for two students to rent a plane for this exercise. One is PIC to a destination 300NM away, the other is PIC on the way back.
If you have your own plane, fly it somewhere where there is a freelance instructor and another examiner. I recently renewed my class one and will be residing in the Ottawa region starting late Aug. if that is in range for you, let me know and I will be happy to work with you.
"You have to be the sole occupant of the plane" he proceeds to tell me..... I immediately lose interested in dealing with this man
[/quote]
Your CFI is wrong. The only requirement is that you are pilot in command. It is common practice for two students to rent a plane for this exercise. One is PIC to a destination 300NM away, the other is PIC on the way back.
If you have your own plane, fly it somewhere where there is a freelance instructor and another examiner. I recently renewed my class one and will be residing in the Ottawa region starting late Aug. if that is in range for you, let me know and I will be happy to work with you.
-
dirtdr
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:22 pm
what about the CPL solo time? How is that defined??? I have over 600 PIC... all of that I have been learning and developing my flying skills (although not paying an instructor to supervise it)
I'm not trying to fast track my way into a flying job or anything... I was just thinking that I had most of the boxes checked, and with a few flights to get to flight test standard, that a CPL upgrade would be good to have. But i'm not gonna do it if I have to wail around in a 172 for 50 hrs
But everyone local telling me I basically have to start from the beginning (with instrument and night ratings credited, I would still need 15 dual and 30 solo )
I'm not trying to fast track my way into a flying job or anything... I was just thinking that I had most of the boxes checked, and with a few flights to get to flight test standard, that a CPL upgrade would be good to have. But i'm not gonna do it if I have to wail around in a 172 for 50 hrs
But everyone local telling me I basically have to start from the beginning (with instrument and night ratings credited, I would still need 15 dual and 30 solo )
-
DeflectionShot
[quote]I'm not trying to fast track my way into a flying job or anything... I was just thinking that I had most of the boxes checked, and with a few flights to get to flight test standard, that a CPL upgrade would be good to have.[/quote]
Given the hassle it may not be worth it. Keep in mind that you also need to keep up a Category One medical and that can add up on a yearly basis at $150 buck a crack (not including the cost of the ECG). If you're over 40, I think you need to do it every six months and an ECG every 12 months. If you're thirsty for the knowledge try the ground school at Harv's, it's actually pretty good (and no I'm not affiliated in any way ;-).
Given the hassle it may not be worth it. Keep in mind that you also need to keep up a Category One medical and that can add up on a yearly basis at $150 buck a crack (not including the cost of the ECG). If you're over 40, I think you need to do it every six months and an ECG every 12 months. If you're thirsty for the knowledge try the ground school at Harv's, it's actually pretty good (and no I'm not affiliated in any way ;-).
-
dirtdr
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:22 pm
[quote author=DeflectionShot link=topic=6727.msg18292#msg18292 date=1500671524]
Given the hassle it may not be worth it. Keep in mind that you also need to keep up a Category One medical and that can add up on a yearly basis at $150 buck a crack (not including the cost of the ECG). If you're over 40, I think you need to do it every six months and an ECG every 12 months. If you're thirsty for the knowledge try the ground school at Harv's, it's actually pretty good (and no I'm not affiliated in any way ;-).
[/quote]
I have taken this into consideration. My class 3 medical is due for renal, and I was going to go for the class 1 (need ECG anyway for this one). I am already half way through the harv's ground school.
I only need to maintain the class 1 if I want to exercise the privileges of CPL (which i likely wont for a while anyway.)
Given the hassle it may not be worth it. Keep in mind that you also need to keep up a Category One medical and that can add up on a yearly basis at $150 buck a crack (not including the cost of the ECG). If you're over 40, I think you need to do it every six months and an ECG every 12 months. If you're thirsty for the knowledge try the ground school at Harv's, it's actually pretty good (and no I'm not affiliated in any way ;-).
[/quote]
I have taken this into consideration. My class 3 medical is due for renal, and I was going to go for the class 1 (need ECG anyway for this one). I am already half way through the harv's ground school.
I only need to maintain the class 1 if I want to exercise the privileges of CPL (which i likely wont for a while anyway.)
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