Everyone makes mistakes

[Trey Kule]

Nark.
Don't beat around the bush.  Tell me how you really feel😀
I think maybe my point was misinterpreted.  I was not defending this or making excuses for them.  Thought I made that clear, but sometime CAVU to one is 1/4 and 100 to another on the internet.


My point was simply everyone has made a mistake flying...and yes Nark, that includes you, nyou are a liar if you claim different.


But what is learned here from slagging the pilots?


Cat asked a good question.  And maybe, when it is answered with fact, there will be , for those who enjoy it, the opportunity to slag the pilots.

[Strega]

Tk,


If the pilots of that particular flight became fatigued to the point they believed they could no longer operated the aircraft safely, they should have diverted somewhere and got on the ground when they were still able.




Why is it we expect truck, bus and taxi drivers to pull over when they are tired, but we expect pilots to fly when clearly fatigued?

[Trey Kule]

Strega.


I never said the pilots were fatigued.  I have no idea if they were or not.


You, like Nark, seem to want to argue that I was defending or making excuses for this crew.


Other than the media report and the posted expertise on this thread, I do not know what happened.
What I do see is a bunch of posters taking the opportunity to pile on this crew.  And personally, I find that disgusting.


If they screwed the pooch, I am quite certain Air Canada will deal with them..  But I guess it is always fun for some to kick others when the opportunity presents itself.


Knock yourself out.. Shaming people is fun, right?

[Strega]

[quote author=Trey Kule link=topic=6691.msg18109#msg18109 date=1499824941].

What I do see is a bunch of posters taking the opportunity to pile on this crew.

[/quote]




TK


Who else is responsible for lining up on the taxiway?  There were at least 2 ATPL rated pilots in the cockpit. If they are not responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft, who is?

[Colonel]

[b]George Santayana:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"[/b]

I am given to understand this is the [i]very first time[/i]
this has ever happened?

Four Bars have trouble understanding my sentiment
that they should strive to make [i]new mistakes[/i] in an
aircraft - not repeat old ones over and over again.

For example, if a Four Bar in an Airbus decided to
take on a Klingon Battleship, at least that would
be a [i]new mistake[/i], that AFAIK no one has ever made
before.

Of course, it would be incredibly stupid, and thus
in character, but at least it would display a modicum
of originality.

[Nark1]

Trey,


Of course I've made mistakes flying the aircraft that I do. (When not deployed, I regularly fly GA, transport and a 20,000lb helicopter)


To coddle the crew and say "mistakes happen" is utter bullshit.
Mistuning a freq, okay, no big deal.  Loading the wrong approach, but catching it in your brief, I'll let that one slide (because you were doing you G-D job as a pilot).


Flying to a taxiway in a fucking Airbus?  I'm not sure what you fly, but I do fly the A320.  You have to to grossly neglect what the aircraft is telling you, to line up on the taxiway, adjacent to the runway. 


This sort of approach happens all the time at O’hare, with 3 parallel runways, and another 3 parallel taxiways.  By simply looking at my PFD, I can immediately tell what I'm lined up with.


With respect to the Airbus soecifically,  you don't even need an approach to the runway to get lateral guidance.  Drop a point/bearing from the threshold, and holy poop, you have a GPS tracked lateral guidance.


I have zero sympathy for these guys.  I also have no patience for those who defend them, saying "everyone makes mistakes..."

[Liquid Charlie]

And there isn't a history of landing on the wrong runway and even the wrong airport over the years, I know of at least a dozen and even personally know crews involved. Being the modern bunch we are we should be concerned on the why it happens instead of marching people up against the wall. These poor SOB's are sweating bullets right now and the company is crawling up their asses. Union reps will be getting a workout and likely hating it as well. It always turns into a shit show but intelligent and enquiring minds want to know WHY!!!!! and like the thread title says -- prevention is the solution and that takes an open mind by all parties.


The company will want to prevent any connection to "company culture" and will not support fatigue even if it's the main factor or a training issue because big red has the best, really, over the years I have heard it's [font=Verdana][size=5px]archaic[/size][/font][font=Verdana][/size][size=1]. [/size][size=5px][/font]

[Eric Janson]

Here's video of the 28R approach with the lights off on 28L (I understand these were the conditions on the night of the incident) Starts at 3:50

[youtube]O3LTYeZrzH8[/youtube]

You can see twy 'C' (the green lights) - looks nothing like a runway. Not sure why you would line up on it.

The scary part is that they did not go-around until ATC told them to (that's [b]too[/b] late imho).

[Rookie Pilot]

This is AC. they don't make mistakes. Any opinion to the contrary is trolling.  O0

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Once again I would like to hear the CVR for the previous ten minutes.