This site is [b]WAY [/b]more entertaining!
PS 4000 feet is far too short for what I have
next in mind. 10,000 feet is the minimum.
I'd like 12,000 frankly. Cold Lake is over 12,000
and it came in handy one day. BLC failure on
the -104. Someone like Rookie would have
ejected, but a far better pilot than he landed
it safely - at tremendous speed, far past the rated
speed of the tires and somewhat inconveniently
also the drag chute.
A member of one of those [b]BAD [/b]aviation
families that have been flying for 100 years
and four generations with six instances of the
same Y-chromosome.
[img width=500 height=185][/img]
[img width=500 height=336][/img]
Hours to PPL
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Chuck Ellsworth
[font=Verdana][size=2px]Is that your view too Chuck? You wore the "bars". So applies to you as well?[/size][/font]
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
Longer runways give you more options which
gives you more safety. I like safety.
Bob Hoover was not impressed with the short
runway that he had to routinely dead-stick
experimental fighter jets onto, as a test pilot
for North American. Read his auto-biography.
But Bob probably wasn't much of a stick compared
to an [u]African Bush Pilot Hero[/u]. You know, the
guys that can't land a 172 in a crosswind without
wrecking it.
With a long enough runway, an engine failure in
a piston twin after takeoff is a non-event. Instead
of dying like Rookie in an inverted Vmc demo, you
just pull both throttles back, let the nose drop, and
flare and land on nice hard pavement.
I can see how avoiding an accident with improved
facilities would upset someone like Rookie.
Like that over-run mush at the end of long runways.
Great idea. It's saved a lot of lives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineere ... tor_system
[quote]On May 1, 2017, the FAA issued a summary citing twelve incidents of aircraft stopped by EMAS, involving a total of 284 passengers and crew:[8]
In May 1999, a Saab 340 commuter aircraft with 30 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In May 2003, a Gemini Cargo MD-11 cargo aircraft with 3 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In January 2005, a Boeing 747 cargo aircraft with 3 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In July 2006, a Mystere Falcon 900 business aircraft with 5 persons aboard overran the runway at Greenville Downtown Airport in South Carolina.
In July 2008, an Airbus A320 commercial airliner with 145 persons aboard overran the runway at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
On 19 January 2010, a Bombardier CRJ-200 commercial regional airliner with 34 persons aboard overran the runway at Yeager Airport in Charleston, West Virginia after a rejected takeoff.[9]
On 1 October 2010, a G-4 Gulfstream business aircraft with 10 persons aboard overran the runway at Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey.[10]
On 2 November 2011, a Cessna Citation II business aircraft with 5 persons aboard overran the runway at Key West International Airport in Key West, Florida.[11][12]
In October 2013, a Cessna 680 Citation business aircraft with 8 persons aboard overran the runway at Palm Beach International in West Palm Beach, Florida.
In January 2016, a Dassault Falcon 20 aircraft with 2 persons aboard overran the runway at Chicago Executive Airport, in Chicago, IL[13]
In October 2016, A Boeing 737 aircraft with 37 persons aboard, including Republican Vice-Presidential Candidate Mike Pence, overran the runway at LaGuardia Airport, NY. [14][15][16]
In April 2017, A Cessna 750 Citation aircraft with 2 persons aboard overran the runway at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CA
In addition, the following incidents have been described in other news outlets:
After the 8 December 2005 overshoot of Southwest Airlines Flight 1248 at Midway International Airport in Chicago, Illinois, which is located in a heavily congested area, an EMAS was installed on Rwy 13C/31C.[17]
On 13 October 2006, New York Yankees Alex Rodriguez's private jet was brought to a halt safely by the EMAS installation at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California. The system was installed after the 2000 Southwest Airlines Flight 1455 runway overshoot that injured 43 passengers and the captain.[/quote]
Despite what Rookie might think, this is good runway
engineering.
gives you more safety. I like safety.
Bob Hoover was not impressed with the short
runway that he had to routinely dead-stick
experimental fighter jets onto, as a test pilot
for North American. Read his auto-biography.
But Bob probably wasn't much of a stick compared
to an [u]African Bush Pilot Hero[/u]. You know, the
guys that can't land a 172 in a crosswind without
wrecking it.
With a long enough runway, an engine failure in
a piston twin after takeoff is a non-event. Instead
of dying like Rookie in an inverted Vmc demo, you
just pull both throttles back, let the nose drop, and
flare and land on nice hard pavement.
I can see how avoiding an accident with improved
facilities would upset someone like Rookie.
Like that over-run mush at the end of long runways.
Great idea. It's saved a lot of lives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineere ... tor_system
[quote]On May 1, 2017, the FAA issued a summary citing twelve incidents of aircraft stopped by EMAS, involving a total of 284 passengers and crew:[8]
In May 1999, a Saab 340 commuter aircraft with 30 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In May 2003, a Gemini Cargo MD-11 cargo aircraft with 3 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In January 2005, a Boeing 747 cargo aircraft with 3 persons aboard overran the runway at JFK.
In July 2006, a Mystere Falcon 900 business aircraft with 5 persons aboard overran the runway at Greenville Downtown Airport in South Carolina.
In July 2008, an Airbus A320 commercial airliner with 145 persons aboard overran the runway at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
On 19 January 2010, a Bombardier CRJ-200 commercial regional airliner with 34 persons aboard overran the runway at Yeager Airport in Charleston, West Virginia after a rejected takeoff.[9]
On 1 October 2010, a G-4 Gulfstream business aircraft with 10 persons aboard overran the runway at Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey.[10]
On 2 November 2011, a Cessna Citation II business aircraft with 5 persons aboard overran the runway at Key West International Airport in Key West, Florida.[11][12]
In October 2013, a Cessna 680 Citation business aircraft with 8 persons aboard overran the runway at Palm Beach International in West Palm Beach, Florida.
In January 2016, a Dassault Falcon 20 aircraft with 2 persons aboard overran the runway at Chicago Executive Airport, in Chicago, IL[13]
In October 2016, A Boeing 737 aircraft with 37 persons aboard, including Republican Vice-Presidential Candidate Mike Pence, overran the runway at LaGuardia Airport, NY. [14][15][16]
In April 2017, A Cessna 750 Citation aircraft with 2 persons aboard overran the runway at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CA
In addition, the following incidents have been described in other news outlets:
After the 8 December 2005 overshoot of Southwest Airlines Flight 1248 at Midway International Airport in Chicago, Illinois, which is located in a heavily congested area, an EMAS was installed on Rwy 13C/31C.[17]
On 13 October 2006, New York Yankees Alex Rodriguez's private jet was brought to a halt safely by the EMAS installation at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California. The system was installed after the 2000 Southwest Airlines Flight 1455 runway overshoot that injured 43 passengers and the captain.[/quote]
Despite what Rookie might think, this is good runway
engineering.
-
David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
[quote author=Trey Kule link=topic=6263.msg16753#msg16753 date=1495459267]
I am retiring.
[/quote]
Hurry up, I've gone through three or more bottles of Bowmore the darkest 15 year Old since you told me not to open that first one until you came back years ago.
The weekly pilot's lunch seems to have moved or ceased but we could go somewhere with salads and talk about when airplanes had round things with needles to show how, high, fast and what direction they are going.
I am retiring.
[/quote]
Hurry up, I've gone through three or more bottles of Bowmore the darkest 15 year Old since you told me not to open that first one until you came back years ago.
The weekly pilot's lunch seems to have moved or ceased but we could go somewhere with salads and talk about when airplanes had round things with needles to show how, high, fast and what direction they are going.
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John Swallow
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm
Hope this gets in before "Rookie" hits the silk:
BLC failure was a bit of a problem, but not an insurmountable one.
Basically meant flaps to Take-off, bumping up the speeds a touch, and remembering not to select drag chute until below max chute speed. Nothing a pipe-line student couldn't handle.
Speeds recommended were 195 K minimum on approach; 165 K minimum on touchdown. Take-off speed "all bombed up" was around 214 K so touch down around 165 K would be a non-event.
But, the landing distance required would eat up a foot ball field or two...
Alluded to in another thread some time ago was force landing the '104 with an engine out: Take off flap only, 240 knot on approach, 165 min on touchdown. Not for the faint of heart: with a sink rate somewhat in excess of that of my RV, I would think any decision to eject during a botched procedure would have to have been made early...
J
BLC failure was a bit of a problem, but not an insurmountable one.
Basically meant flaps to Take-off, bumping up the speeds a touch, and remembering not to select drag chute until below max chute speed. Nothing a pipe-line student couldn't handle.
Speeds recommended were 195 K minimum on approach; 165 K minimum on touchdown. Take-off speed "all bombed up" was around 214 K so touch down around 165 K would be a non-event.
But, the landing distance required would eat up a foot ball field or two...
Alluded to in another thread some time ago was force landing the '104 with an engine out: Take off flap only, 240 knot on approach, 165 min on touchdown. Not for the faint of heart: with a sink rate somewhat in excess of that of my RV, I would think any decision to eject during a botched procedure would have to have been made early...
J
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
Well now you even have [i]me[/i] wanting to try out a -104.
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DeflectionShot
[quote]Speeds recommended were 195 K minimum on approach; 165 K minimum on touchdown. Take-off speed "all bombed up" was around 214 K so touch down around 165 K would be a non-event.[/quote]
:o
:o
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