A 320 stuck in mud YEG May 7, 2024

Aircraft Accident & Crash Investigation Topics
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Colonel
Posts: 2431
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 pm
Location: Over The Runway

The FAA "knowledge" tests (aka written/computer) are really just a regulatory barrier.
They are necessary, but not sufficient. It is up to you, to learn what you need to know.

You wouldn't believe the number of people who don't understand this. They think that
if they pass the (eg) FAA private pilot knowledge test, they possess the requisite knowledge
to be a private pilot. No. It gets better. They think it matters what score they get on
the computer test. They think it's really, really important. I try to explain to them that
their pilot certificate from OKC will be the same color regardless, but they don't get it.

They think that Chuck Yeager and Mother Theresa compose these tests. No. And
they think that 80 hours and 500 landings logged to solo is normal.

Ok.


As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Slick Goodlin
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 am

Nark wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 2:11 pm
Ha, they don’t even teach how the priority of fuel pumps work.
Yikes. Like I said, we’re big on wheel track awareness. This company doesn’t do anything preemptively (I’ll be polite and say they won’t do anything without data) so I’m thinking we had some jets get close enough to taxiway or runway edges that someone took notice.
Nark wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 2:11 pm
The idea of Al Haynes or Sully being upfront is long gone. The FAA has fully embraced the “less is more” mantra.
Fair, though maybe we don’t give our peers enough credit. You can get pretty creative in a situation as long as you refuse to give up.

I had been warned about a good number of super inexperienced FOs at work but so far I’ve been pleasantly surprised by their backgrounds and competence. I guess I should take back all the things I said about our training department and amend my feelings to “there’s room for improvement.”

As for the FAA, I always thought they were more anal to the student/candidate than TC. My impression was the FAA didn’t care much about how training was conducted (yay freedom!) while the test would be an absolute grind as a sort of singular massive quality assurance check. Meanwhile TC is incredibly specific about anyone providing training and the test is more like a formality.
Nark
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:29 pm
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I’m super biased, as I’m in the training department.
What surprises me the most, is the competence of some (the inexperienced) and the lack of competence of the higher times folks.
It really boils down to psychology and the desire to learn, rather than the “been there/done that mentality. (If you haven’t flown this jet for us, you haven’t been there/done that)

I think 80% of the FAA inspectors I have come across are former 121 pilots (airline) whereas I’m not sure the same could be said for TC.
With that said, they’re familiar with the cogs of the wheel.
When I was a brand new captain, I was warned as well about the fragility of the new FO’s I’d be flying with, however like you, I can’t recall any that concerned me. Now I fly with dudes and dudettes who have literally never flown a jet until we strap in, for their first flight for IOE.
It takes a special recipe of patience, teaching them not only the jet, but how to talk on the radio as well.

I say this to say, my company has a deeper training program compared to the airline mentioned at the top of this thread. With that said, Fate is the Hunter, and I think it’s only a matter of time we see someone shut down a perfectly good engine, due to lack to SA.
Twin Beech restoration:
www.barelyaviated.com
David MacRay
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:16 am

Nark wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 2:43 am

It takes a special recipe of patience, teaching them not only the jet, but how to talk on the radio as well.

Potential customers for a local branch of my radio school.
Slick Goodlin
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:24 am

Nark wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 2:43 am
Fate is the Hunter, and I think it’s only a matter of time we see someone shut down a perfectly good engine, due to lack to SA.
Funny you should mention that sort of thing. My fleet has seen a bunch of bungled missed approaches (mostly in the sim) so they threw a couple procedural speed bumps into how we fly them now and it’s tidied them up quite a bit. It’s nice to be forced to slow down and put more attention into what’s happening. Surely engine securing at your shop is treated similarly where no one’s in a hurry to get that switch off. Not like a jet has to deal with the drag of a windmilling prop or anything.
Eric Janson
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:45 am

David MacRay wrote:
Thu May 09, 2024 4:55 pm
Again, I don’t know if the question mark shaped line drawn on the surface was visible at the time, but the nose wheel is inside of it. My rudimentary understanding is, that made it unlikely the mains would trail on the pavement.
My guess is that when the right wheel went off the pavement it caused the aircraft to pull sharply to the right (quite a long moment arm). The nosewheel would have skidded on the wet taxiway.
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