Lufthansa Boeing 747 at LAX 4/23/2024

Aircraft Accident & Crash Investigation Topics
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Colonel
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Clearly basic stick and rudder skills are no longer required.

Keep on pushing those buttons!


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The Dread Pilot Roberts
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Dam that’s brutal, I wondering if the same pilot was flying on the second approach
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Colonel
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The Wx looked pretty challenging. That treacherous clear blue California sky will get you every time.



If you have to land a working aircraft in perfect wx, remember to keep the autopilot on, ok?
Slick Goodlin
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I wonder if the 747 flew out on schedule after that. Be interesting to know if it can shrug off a crash and dash like that and carry on.
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Colonel
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That's gotta be logged as a hard landing. Lucky he didn't tailstrike on the go.
Slick Goodlin
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Colonel wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:52 pm
That's gotta be logged as a hard landing. Lucky he didn't tailstrike on the go.
Oh yeah, hard landing inspection for sure. I don’t know if the 747 has any telltales on it or not for that situation, though. Frangible stops near the end of oleo strokes and whatnot.
Nark
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On board sensors record all sorts of parameters during all phases of flight. (Not just the FDR).

The Airbus has a “load 15” report that will automatically print if there is an exceedance on landing. Most common will be >2.5 G’s at touchdown.
Requires a maintenance write up.

ALSO!
A suspected hard landing. The absence of a load 15 doesn’t mean you’re in the clear.

I’d say this may qualify …

As for external indicators on the landing gear, I can’t think of any. Of course if you see cracked fittings/fairings that a different thing.


Since we’re on the subject, most common damage on a hard landing is a scrapped tail on the Airbus.
Ding bat on the controls, recognizes the “bounce” calls a go-around then proceeds to over-control and pitches too high. The increased thrust vector pitches the nose up further.
Good times, so I’m told.


Best bounced landing I ever saw was in Hondo. A Swift Air 737 was doing OE, dude bounced OUT of the touchdown zone. (I have connections and asked after our flight). I turned to my FO, who was also doing OE and said “see, your landing could have been much worse.”

Swift went out of business 4 weeks later. Coincidence? You decide.
Twin Beech restoration:
www.barelyaviated.com
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Colonel
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I'm probably being too hard on the pilots (again) but aren't we looking at a double failure here?

I'm going to surmise (hope) it was the low-time three bar in the right seat that was responsible
for this magnificent feat of aviation in perfect wx with a serviceable aircraft. He pooched the
landing badly.

But the four bar in the left seat that sat there and watched it happen .... should he have let it
get this badly out of control? It does not reflect well upon his judgement and skill, either.

What have I got wrong about the above? I spent 25 years teaching people to land everything
from Cessnas to Pitts to Beech 18 to L39's. Probably flew over 100 types? I never got to sit
in the left seat with my thumb up my @ss watching some newbie in the right seat trying to
blow out the oleos.
Nark
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That’s the hardest thing in the Airbus as an instructor. You can’t give them a little “here ya go” on the controls. It sums both inputs and will lead to a tail strike.
You have to lock them out entirely.

How much rope am I going to give you before I reign it back, or let you hang yourself. Age old paradigm.
Twin Beech restoration:
www.barelyaviated.com
digits
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Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:15 am

Nark wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:08 pm
On board sensors record all sorts of parameters during all phases of flight. (Not just the FDR).

The Airbus has a “load 15” report that will automatically print if there is an exceedance on landing. Most common will be >2.5 G’s at touchdown.
Requires a maintenance write up.

ALSO!
A suspected hard landing. The absence of a load 15 doesn’t mean you’re in the clear.

I’d say this may qualify …

As for external indicators on the landing gear, I can’t think of any. Of course if you see cracked fittings/fairings that a different thing.


Since we’re on the subject, most common damage on a hard landing is a scrapped tail on the Airbus.
Ding bat on the controls, recognizes the “bounce” calls a go-around then proceeds to over-control and pitches too high. The increased thrust vector pitches the nose up further.
Good times, so I’m told.


Best bounced landing I ever saw was in Hondo. A Swift Air 737 was doing OE, dude bounced OUT of the touchdown zone. (I have connections and asked after our flight). I turned to my FO, who was also doing OE and said “see, your landing could have been much worse.”

Swift went out of business 4 weeks later. Coincidence? You decide.
Where's the 2.5g measured? On the gear itself or in the cockpit?
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