Another day, another crash in Norcal
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:43 am
Bombardier CL 600 Truckee Tahoe 26 July 2021
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Bombardier CL 600 Truckee Tahoe 26 July 2021
Re: Another day, another crash in Norcal
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:09 pm
Watched a brief report - typical circling approach fuckup based on initial observations. Low vis - blew the centre line and close in -- and the skido is infamous for poor slow speed handling. Why they left LED's off that aircraft is a mystery to me.
Air Canada provided us with countless hours of entertainment when they first started operating them. Not sure what the model difference is but wings are the same.
Light winds, is there a straight in or are all approaches circling there.?????
Air Canada provided us with countless hours of entertainment when they first started operating them. Not sure what the model difference is but wings are the same.
Light winds, is there a straight in or are all approaches circling there.?????
Re: Another day, another crash in Norcal
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:20 pm
NLF wings have nasty, sudden stall behavior. If you looked at the Cl curve, I'm sure it drops like a cliff.
I have stalled both the P-51 and Glasair III (both NLF) and they get your attention. Not your father's
J-3 cub.
It gets worse with any wing contamination. A few decades back, when the 600 was new, they were
doing circuits at Ottawa one evening. Had a wing drop at much too high a speed. Scared the shit out
of everyone. They were lucky they lived.
Yup, it was bugs plastered all over the leading edge of the wing. Bombardier said that the aircraft
wasn't designed to do that.
I hate bugs. And NLF wings are not to be stalled close to the ground, unless you're Bob Hoover.
They are speedy with their low drag, but will bite you at high AOA.
There are some places you just don't go. F-104 had an equivalent angle of attack indicator, and
it had a magic number that was not to be exceeded. I think 17? Anyways, if you operated it within
the AOA (and engine air inlet temp) it was fine. You stalled it, you would experience t-tail pitchup
and even the legendary Chuck Yeager couldn't fly an F-104 out of that. Spent a long time in hospital
recuperating from the ejection.
I know I'm considered pretty weird for this, but if you learn a little about the physics of what's going
on, you're going to live a lot longer.
PS Glasair III flew just like a jet. Take the wingtip extensions off for the full experience.
Just like an early jet, the vertical fin is too small. Terribly nostalgic. Great exhaust sound.
P-51D (actually TF-51 Cavalier conversion) was fun to fly, but if someone gave me one, I'd sell it.
High maintenance, like an incredibly insecure super-model girlfriend with a nasty coke habit. Just not worth it.
I was young. They told me it was art. I needed the money.
I have stalled both the P-51 and Glasair III (both NLF) and they get your attention. Not your father's
J-3 cub.
It gets worse with any wing contamination. A few decades back, when the 600 was new, they were
doing circuits at Ottawa one evening. Had a wing drop at much too high a speed. Scared the shit out
of everyone. They were lucky they lived.
Yup, it was bugs plastered all over the leading edge of the wing. Bombardier said that the aircraft
wasn't designed to do that.
I hate bugs. And NLF wings are not to be stalled close to the ground, unless you're Bob Hoover.
They are speedy with their low drag, but will bite you at high AOA.
There are some places you just don't go. F-104 had an equivalent angle of attack indicator, and
it had a magic number that was not to be exceeded. I think 17? Anyways, if you operated it within
the AOA (and engine air inlet temp) it was fine. You stalled it, you would experience t-tail pitchup
and even the legendary Chuck Yeager couldn't fly an F-104 out of that. Spent a long time in hospital
recuperating from the ejection.
I know I'm considered pretty weird for this, but if you learn a little about the physics of what's going
on, you're going to live a lot longer.
PS Glasair III flew just like a jet. Take the wingtip extensions off for the full experience.
Just like an early jet, the vertical fin is too small. Terribly nostalgic. Great exhaust sound.
P-51D (actually TF-51 Cavalier conversion) was fun to fly, but if someone gave me one, I'd sell it.
High maintenance, like an incredibly insecure super-model girlfriend with a nasty coke habit. Just not worth it.
I was young. They told me it was art. I needed the money.
Re: Another day, another crash in Norcal
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:38 pm
Note that the shape of the Cl curve at ClMax is uncannily like the behavior
of the coefficient of friction of a (eg motorcycle) tire at the transition from
static to sliding friction aka breakaway characteristics.
Despite what people think, the actual value is not as important as the
behavior at the limit. Is it managable - can you fly/ride through it - or does
it viciously try to kill you?
NLF wing at the stall is like a cold motorcycle tire in a high side.
I know people don't have very much interest in the details of physics at the
edges of their Vg diagram, but often they are dead.
Free advice for people near Toronto: go see Geoff at Burlington. Spend
some time at high alpha. Learn to live there. WIth practice, you can control
the airplane through it and recover.
of the coefficient of friction of a (eg motorcycle) tire at the transition from
static to sliding friction aka breakaway characteristics.
Despite what people think, the actual value is not as important as the
behavior at the limit. Is it managable - can you fly/ride through it - or does
it viciously try to kill you?
NLF wing at the stall is like a cold motorcycle tire in a high side.
I know people don't have very much interest in the details of physics at the
edges of their Vg diagram, but often they are dead.
Free advice for people near Toronto: go see Geoff at Burlington. Spend
some time at high alpha. Learn to live there. WIth practice, you can control
the airplane through it and recover.